Shooting the 62 caliber

[Bob Roller]

In 2006,I posted on the Long Range Muzzle Loader list about breeches and barrels for the long range rifles that launched 500+grains of lead goosed along by 80 to 110 grains of black powder.It was copyrighted by David Minshall,the moderator and list owner in my name.
It says in essence that long range muzzle loaders MUST be designed and made with that one purpose in mind. That means the best breech plugs which at that time meant one from Don Brown(now deceased) and now Rod England who owns all of Brown's tooling. They are not cheap. The barrel must be from the best certified gun barrel materials. Platinum lined nipples at whatever price are mandatory.
The same goes for fine sights,a quality lock and wood. These are purpose built rifles for one thing and that one thing is to accurately deliver a heavy bullet at 1000 to 1200 yards.
Loading a round ball barrel with such a load can be a guaranteed trip to the ER with horrendus injuries to hands or face so be safe. Use of such a load in a caplock with a drum an nipple ignition system is a big NO-NO as well.
If you want to shoot long bullets,the Pedersoli/Gibbs .451 is a good one to get or,if money is no object,get all the parts together and have a custom maker make one for you.

Bob Roller

[Daryl]

Glad to hear it, Flinter. Slugs have no place in a longrifle or Hawken gun, although there was one instance recorded of a fellow shooting elongated slugs in his Hawken- "almost an inch long"
I'm not sure why square rifling would be incorrect in a longrifle, though. I'd always thought round bottom rifling was a fairly new invention.

[Bob Roller]

My wife's step father liked the looks of the Hawken but cared nothing for a round ball and the way it was loaded so he had Tom Dawson make a really fine late Hawken with a one inch 45 caliber barrel with a 1:18 twist. Bill Large made the barrel and I made the lock and triggers. It combined the looks of the St.Louis rifle with the performance of an Alex Henry,the best of both worlds.

Bob Roller

[bob in the woods]

"Best " depends on the application     I have a .45 in a 1/18 twist but still prefer my round ball larger bores for hunting    The .45 is for 600 to 1000 yd target shooting 

[The other DWS]

I have a really nice original Percussion Schuetzen, early 1880s by Grimm out of Chicago, With a heavy Remington barrel that is clearly a fast twist for bullets rather than balls.  Oddly enough it is a 45 cal, large for most of the later target rifles that tended to be around 35 cal.
 I haven't shot it recently but it was quite accurate at 200 yds with the old flatfaced Lee "modern-minie" well-lubed and the bottom cavity filled with lube and a fairly healthy powder charge.   While not a real shoulder hammerer, I don't think I'd want to shoot a 100 shot match in one day.   fortunately for me the 100 shot matches mostly came into the game a generation or so later with 38 and 32 cal cartridge single shot schuetzen rifles.

[Flinter]

Thanks for the post Mr. Roller. Long range muzzleloader is interesting, but I do not have the money to get into this. I like round balls at 50 yards. I think the thread got sidetracked over some specs I posted from the Rice site.
The first day of muzzleloading deer season a few years back, I shot at a deer at about 40 yards with five in the group, and I missed. I reloaded and shot at a deer through a thicket and I missed him. The deer turned and came out on a logging road and stopped about 20 yards from my stand. The rifle was not loader. He went into the woods and came out into a clearing about 40 yards and stopped. I missed again. After reloading, another deer came out on the logging road about 100 yards and stopped. I missed him too. I don't know if I was just shooting up into the air or what. That 100 yard shot was the farthest I have shot at a deer.
Yea, I would kinda like to have long range muzzleoader, but what's the use, when I cannot hit one at 40 yards.


Daryl, I said to the best of my knowledge. You guys know a lot more than me.

Bob, I take it that your wife's step father shoots bullets in the Hawken with the 1:18 twist.

bob in the woods - you guys are killing me. Please don't make me want a bullet rifle. 

[excess650]

Flinter,
It sounds like you need to spend a LOT more time at the range shooting paper.  40 yard shots at deer should be a "gimme".  Range time should increase your ability and confidence.  Unfortunately, it won't do a darned thing for buck fever.

I generally do my shooting at 50 to 60 yards, but will shoot 100 from time to time.  I have shot 200 yards and 300 yards with a flintlock, but not at game. 

IMO, the more time spent shooting at longer ranges will enhance shorter distance ability, but I would consider 100-125 yards to be as far as I would want to shoot a deer with a PRB.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Thanks for the post Mr. Roller. Long range muzzleloader is interesting, but I do not have the money to get into this. I like round balls at 50 yards. I think the thread got sidetracked over some specs I posted from the Rice site.
The first day of muzzleloading deer season a few years back, I shot at a deer at about 40 yards with five in the group, and I missed. I reloaded and shot at a deer through a thicket and I missed him. The deer turned and came out on a logging road and stopped about 20 yards from my stand. The rifle was not loader. He went into the woods and came out into a clearing about 40 yards and stopped. I missed again. After reloading, another deer came out on the logging road about 100 yards and stopped. I missed him too. I don't know if I was just shooting up into the air or what. That 100 yard shot was the farthest I have shot at a deer.
Yea, I would kinda like to have long range muzzleoader, but what's the use, when I cannot hit one at 40 yards.

Phew, not only did you forfeit your shirttail but the collar and both sleeves!!!

[Flinter]

I built the house I am living in now around 1985. My first priority was to build a 100/200 yard shooting range. Now, this was done before I built the house. After the range was built, the bulldozer made my house pad.

Since November I have shot 4  1/2  pounds of powder through my flintlock. Most of this is freehand shooting. I shoot a lot of modern firarms, but I feel like I don't need to discus that.
This is a 3 shot target I shot and posted last november.

[Flinter]

Tim, you should have been there as an observer. Deer were running everywhere. The first time I shot the deer were in some waist high bushes, so I can see how I missed. Everything went downhill from there. I did manage to hang onto my ramrod though.

There are so many people in the group I hunt with that miss deer, we done away with the shirt tail rule.

I'll have something to knock em down next year for sure.  A .62 caliber. 

[bob in the woods]

 .62 , or 4 bore.........ya still got to hit them first       "  Aim small , miss small "

[robert]

A 4 bore ouch!!!!!!! I shot a friend of mines 3 times and it was enough for me. Was young dume but what can I say?

[Daryl]

The full charge for a 4 bore, is a 5 bore ball at 1,400gr. weight, along with 16 drams of powder. That's 437 grains weight.  Not me - ever. A 12 dram load broke WW Greener's recoil machine that only went up to 200 pounds recoil.  The lighter 327 gr. was enough over 200pounds to break the machine.
For those who find these figures meaningless, my .69 with a 482gr. ball and 165gr. powder puts out something like 76 pounds according to the formulas, but feels only like about 40 pounds.  The 300 mags are about 26 to 28. I have shot that same ball with 12 drams, and it lifted me off my chair- with only a 482gr. ball. Imagine shooting that with a ball 3 times heavier! That's the light 4 bore load.

[robert]

The load I shot was 3 ozs shot and 200grs of powder in a flint smooth bore and that was more than enuogh for me.

[Flinter]

.62 , or 4 bore.........ya still got to hit them first       "  Aim small , miss small "

You're right bob. I figure with the 62 I will hit em with the first shot, because I wont wont to shoot it a secont time.   

[bigsmoke]

First rule of shooting 4 bores is to totaly forget about the prone position in shooting.  Also forget about sitting powition.
A properly configured 4 bore of about 18 pounds isn't "bad " to shoot with a 400 grain load of Fg powder.  The average guy will need to take a step back when it goes off.
Sold a 4 bore to a fellow in Florida 6 or 7 years ago.  Asked him where he was taking it hunting and he replied Virginia.  Asked him what in the world he was planning on hunting there with the 4 bore.  His reply - "Deer, of course."  Oh.
A few months later, I got another email from him, said he really liked the rifle, but it had one major fault.  There was only one barrel.  Will look for a few photos of the result of that conversation.  It turned out fantastic.
This is the only photo I could find real quick of the rifle.  It shows the business end, with a .530 ball for comparison.



John

[robert]

Like I said before OUCH!!!!!!!!!!

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

AHHH.. Don't  slip up and fire both barrels....

[excess650]

yeah, everone knows Virginia is home to tyrannosaurus rex 

[Flinter]

Dang John... it looks like I am shooting BBs in the 54 caliber compared to the picture you posted. Is your 4 bore a cap lock? Now I wouldn't mind having a double 62 caliber.

[Daryl]

A double .58 caplock is fun on the Trail Walk - just ask LB and Taylor.

[Dphariss]

For some videos of shooting a 4  and 8 bore including one 4 bore that DOUBLES see

http://www.doublegunshop.com/vintage6.htm

Dan

These are brass suppository guns BTW.

[Flinter]

After several hours I got the above link to work.

Check out this YouTube 4 bore video.



I am sticking with the 62 caliber.

[omark]

flinter, i agree with ya. my 62 will kill anything i need dead.      mark

[bigsmoke]

Dang John... it looks like I am shooting BBs in the 54 caliber compared to the picture you posted. Is your 4 bore a cap lock? Now I wouldn't mind having a double 62 caliber.

Yes, the 4 bore is a percussion gun.

When I was researching double rifles with the intent to build a double 8 bore, I went to Dixie Gun Works and studied Turner Kirkland's double 4 that was written about in the original Lyman Black Powder book.  While there, I had the opportunity to chat a while with my friend Butch.  He told many little anecdotes about the rifle, including a story about the time Turner took the rifle with him on a bison hunt.  Seems like a certain person declared he wanted to shoot that big ol' gun, and wasn't interested in hearing any bothersome caveats about how to hold it, how to shoot it or anything, just load 'er up and stand back.  Well, this self styled genius picked it up, promptly put a finger onto each trigger and pulled the front one.  Somehow or another, that set off the back trigger and it more or less doubled.  The word was that the bruise on his body was just absolutely amazing.  Ouch!!