Author Topic: Hawken-half stock flint build (Finished)  (Read 4376 times)

Offline WestBranchSusquehanna

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Hawken-half stock flint build (Finished)
« on: March 30, 2020, 03:34:29 AM »
A couple of years ago, my mentor who helped me build by first gun, gave me a 30 1/2 inch, by 1 inch, .50 cal Green Mtn. barrel with a nice solid bar rib.  "Here, make a Hawken someday".  then at last years NMLRA school on the last day, a gentleman walked into our class asking if anyone was going to build a Hawken?  I spoke up and he goes, "Here!" and hands be a walnut rough pre-carved half stock for a Hawken.  "What do I owe you for this?", I asked.  "Nothing!".  Apparently, he had been hauling this stock around to shoots, shows and schools and no-one wanted to purchase it and he was tired of carting it around.  Great timing for me and in my pleasant shock, I lost my manners and didn't get this guys name.  Did thank him profusely.
Here in Pennsylvania, we have a primitive muzzle loader season right after Christmas.  Only flintlocks are allowed.  So this gun is going to be a flinter on a half stock.  Having just finished a Beck that I copied from #98 in the RCA books, I do like to keep things as historically correct.  So, I spent the last year trying to find out if there were any Hawken half stocks that used a flint.  The closest I was able to find out that there is one that has a flint lock that was converted to cap.  The back half of the lock plate does have some engraving and when the cap hammer was added, someone engraved it and did a okay job but it does look a little mismatched.  As I build this gun, I will see if I can blend in the engraving to the front of the lock and hammer to match up a little better.

So, here is the start of my build.  First off, I am putting on a hook breech plug.  3/4" 16 plug and the long tang found on a Hawken.  First problem. When I bottomed out the plug, the top of the tang was 5 flats short of being aligned with the top the barrel.  So it needs to be shortened a bit.  But with that, the hook is recessed a little too far inside the breech end of the barrel.  A little will be needed to be taken off the end of the barrel as well.  I don't have a mill and feel doing this work with a file gives too many chances to get things off.  Fortunately, I have a good friend who restores guns and will do those two tasks for me.






While I am waiting for the barrel to be modified, might as well get the butt plate and a few other pieces of hardware on or polished that I can.  So far, I have built 5 long rifles so have worked through a lot of mistakes and picked up a few skills but when I saw the curve and little recess on the butt plate with a little recess curve just after the drop, I was thinking, this is going to be a pain to get a tight fit.  Having never worked with walnut before, was I ever mistaken.  It only took me 3 hours to get it fitting like a glove.  First, I cut out a profile from a piece of stiff cardboard and marked it out on both sides of the stock.  Then rough cut that out with a coping saw leaving plenty to work with for final fitting.  I then made sure the top flat was true, level and square and that looking from the rear, I had the same amount of wood showing on both sides of the back of the plate. (About 1/4 inch on both sides.)  Got out my hand cut French cabinet makes rasp and had at it. That part was all done by eyesight and just using a pencil to get the high wood marked and removed.  When I was close to 1/16 to being home, I switched to my finest wood half round rasp and started applying inlet black.  Tapping with a rubber mallet and lightly filing and repeat and repeat.............I finally got black everywhere metal touched wood!
Measured and punched marks for the two screws and started with 1/8 inch holes. Set the plate in position and with a scribe marked through the holes to the wood and made a small pilot hole for the screw.  back to the drill press to make a hole big enough to accommodate the screw and used my taper bit for the tapered screw head.  Had a problem.  The butt plate is cast and very hard plus my taper bit is getting some long use on it.  I started to burn it out.  Maybe was going a bit too fast with the drill.  Anyway, need to get a replacement and will deepen that so the screw is flush later.  I had it in place enough to get rid of the casting marks and to polish it enough so I could get the wood flush to it. For this I used a Shinto file and what fast and smooth work that was.  When the Shinto was about to touch the metal, I switched to a combo wood/metal file and made all flush.  A little sanding and I'm happy with the fit and profile.  Pictured is the work done today and I use a little mineral spirits to highlight the wood and it also aids me in finding any file marks I may have missed.








Final note on the butt plate:  As stated, I like historically correct work and found out that Hawkens had a two piece butt plate that was brazed together.  My plan is to engrave a deep line to delineate the top from the bottom, fill that line with copper solder and then polish to give it a two piece look just like it might have been done back in St. Louis.

In my research, there is hardly any two Hawken guns alike, so this one is going to be extremely simple.  No carvings, inlays, tacks, etc.  I was thinking about a little checkering but history will prevail on this build, so no.  More to come as I get though it...................
« Last Edit: April 18, 2020, 09:04:25 PM by WestBranchSusquehanna »
Cheers, Michael Kuriga

Offline BJH

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Re: Hawken-half stock flint build
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2020, 04:36:25 PM »
Good start, if it weren’t for this virus craziness you could have brought the barrel down here, and we could have used my mill. Be safe. BJH
BJH

Offline WestBranchSusquehanna

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Re: Hawken-half stock flint build
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2020, 04:44:46 PM »
Thanks for the offer BJ.  With this crisis we are all facing and sheltering in place, I believe there are a lot of us working on projects at home.  Through this forum, we are sharing and socializing best we can.  Too bad we can't get together like the last gun builder meeting but we will do what we can.  Friends, keep the posts coming................
Cheers, Michael Kuriga

Offline Herb

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Re: Hawken-half stock flint build
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2020, 05:55:39 PM »
You want to build a Hawken- Here's how to fit that breech plug.  Go to Tutorials- Gunmaking Tools and Techniques- metal shaping.   Herb's post of June 21, 2010, "Fitting a Hawken Breech Plug by Hand".  I don't know how to post the line to click on, maybe someone else can do it.  Thanks.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v122/HerbGLT/3breechplugs.jpg
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 05:59:01 PM by Herb »
Herb

Offline flinchrocket

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Offline WestBranchSusquehanna

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Re: Hawken-half stock flint build
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2020, 01:11:28 AM »
Today, I added the nose cap and entry pipe.  Pipe was easy but I took my time with the nose cap.  It is a cast steel one from TOW.  I usually just make them out of sheet brass for my Pa rifles.  But slow and steady and a little inletting  black does the job.  BTW, I once asked about removing inlet black from hands and such.  No matter how little you use, it seems to get everywhere.  I now keep a spray bottle of Simple Green and the black just slides off everything.  Wipe off with a paper towel and you're good to go.



Cheers, Michael Kuriga

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Hawken-half stock flint build
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2020, 02:18:15 AM »
Looking good!
Andover, Vermont

Offline borderdogs

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Re: Hawken-half stock flint build
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2020, 03:31:50 AM »
Its looking great. Hey does simple green work for the inlet black? I have been using acetone on metal and a little of it on my hands with some Boraxo soap. I agree with you about inlet black at one point I thought I was building a black rifle.
Rob

Offline WestBranchSusquehanna

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Re: Hawken-half stock flint build
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2020, 04:37:30 AM »
Highly recommend Simple Green!
Now I don’t use it on any wood.  But, once a part is final fitted, I’ll spray it down with Simple Green and wipe off the black.  It might take a couple iterations and then actually spray my hands and wipe again.  No running water or soap.
Viola!
Cheers, Michael Kuriga

Offline borderdogs

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Re: Hawken-half stock flint build
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2020, 05:40:21 AM »
I am going to try that,
Thanks,
Rob

Offline WestBranchSusquehanna

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Re: Hawken-half stock flint build
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2020, 11:43:25 PM »
The build is continuing:  Yesterday, I couldn't stand it any longer and figured I would go ahead and "hand" file the end of the breech plug so it would alight with the top flat of the barrel and then even tackle removing some off the end of the barrel so the hook would seat properly.  Taking my time, I got it looking and fitted great!  Of course then I had to start inletting the long tang which I have never done one before.  Again slow and sure.  Finished that up this morning.  Please note:  I do know that I am doing a little of this build out of order and of course, you should get your barrel in and then the lock but with what I had at the time, I followed the beat of a different drummer.  Also yesterday, I did a lot of polishing of the metal parts.  And, so far so good.
This afternoon, I installed my lugs for the wedges and inletted them into the channel of the stock.  My method of for cutting in the lugs or sights is to cover the intended area with Dykem.  Mark out the position of the top of the lug minus the wedge.  For the depth, I take my calipers, measure the thickness of the base of the wedge and use the pond on the end of the caliper to mark the side of the barrel for depth.  Do a series of cuts and dress up with triangular file hitting the two ends just a little to get a wedge guide.  Then I take a #8 jeweler blade and cut the wedge deep enough so that I see about 1 1/2 blade widths have cut in.  Then taking a cold chisel peel up the wedge.  I usually dress that up with a few strokes of the file.  Lightly tap in the lug and with a flat punch push down the metal.  With care and after browning the barrel it almost looks like these parts were machined on. 











Cheers, Michael Kuriga

Offline WestBranchSusquehanna

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Re: Hawken-half stock flint build
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2020, 02:16:22 AM »
Got her to the Sparken' stage but with a few minor problems.  I've installed enough locks now to understand their positioning/placement and thought I had all well planned out.  The mark for the touchhole, including the liner was marked out with about 1 1/2 mm before the face of the plug.  Since I was only going to use one screw typical for a Hawken on the lock plate, the forward end wasn't as critical to miss the ramrod channel but I still measured as if it was and feel it looks proper.
So, start inletting the lock, I stripped it down and got to where the bolster was flat on the barrel and the flash pan was where I wanted it with regards to the hole.  (Lightly, punched the spot.)  One by one, I put parts back on the lock and using my drill press, removed wood as needed.  Finally, re-installed the mainspring and then had a problem.  Not with the mortising but with the mainspring hitting the barrel near it's upper hook.  This is a Late English R&L flint.  Okay, some slow grinding and really not much removal of just upper arm of the spring and I got it to fit without touching.  Used a hand grinder and it didn't effect the tension that I can tell.  Then the next problem came when I was figuring out where to place the lock down screw.  Seems that there is hardly enough bolster on the back end to catch it but I did will NO room to spare. Tight is not the word.  Then in the process of going back and forth trying to get this all to fit don't you know I bust out a piece of walnut.  Now the grain was running in a bad direction in that area and maybe I could have been a little more careful but I think eventually, it would have broken out with use over time.  Tomorrow I will scab a piece matching up the best I can.
Moved on the the double set trigger.  A bit tedious but that came in okay and with first try, got sparks.  Installed my two screws to hold the trigger and ready to move onward final shaping the stock, Pinning the inlet pipe, cap and inletting the wedge plates.  Last part will be tackling attaching the rib and two pipes.  Also, a lot of polishing yet to come.

Can't believe the work that has been accomplished in one week. 






Cheers, Michael Kuriga

Offline borderdogs

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Re: Hawken-half stock flint build
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2020, 02:30:03 AM »
Nice job! I like the walnut. You are farther than I am on my flint Hawken. I have the lock, tang trigger plate and barrel inlet bu still have to drill the lock screw and the tang screws into the trigger plate. The problem I have is the location of the vent its very close to the end of the breech plug. I haven't punched its location yet but I have it marked. How close is your vent to the end of the breech plug?
Thanks,
Rob

Offline WestBranchSusquehanna

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Re: Hawken-half stock flint build
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2020, 02:43:20 AM »
I’m going to install a 1/4 inch white lightning liner.  So 1/8 inch plus a 1/16 in front of the plug so not to interfere with the shoulder of the breech.
Cheers, Michael Kuriga

Offline borderdogs

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Re: Hawken-half stock flint build
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2020, 03:23:40 AM »
Yes, I am going to do the same thing but it is close to the shoulder.
Thanks,
Rob

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Hawken-half stock flint build
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2020, 04:14:08 AM »
Hi West branch: I know that your not done yet but if it were mine I would bring the surface of the lock panel down just a tad and reduce the panel,s size considerably. To my eye the area behind the lock is too large. JMHO

Offline WestBranchSusquehanna

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Re: Hawken-half stock flint build
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2020, 04:24:18 AM »
Hi West branch: I know that your not done yet but if it were mine I would bring the surface of the lock panel down just a tad and reduce the panel,s size considerably. To my eye the area behind the lock is too large. JMHO
Am I not dictated to the position due to the placement of the touch hole?  I can reduce the panel size at this point though. 
It amazes me how some people can look at a gun of a certain school and say, this is not right or is. For the life of me, I have a hard time seeing some of the finesse of the building. 
I appreciate your observation and if you can explain in a little more detail what should be done, I’d be thankful.
Cheers
Cheers, Michael Kuriga

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Hawken-half stock flint build
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2020, 04:57:22 AM »
Well when I look at the photo of your lock panel it looks as though the wood is proud of the lock plate in front and not in the rear. To me the lock panel goes too far to the rear into the wrist and extends down too far on its bottom edge. I say this knowing you are not done with it yet and I did say that  in my first post, maybe you planed on reducing the panel before I said anything about it. I am by far no expert on this but I have been fortunate to have seen close to 100 original Hawken guns and handled some dozen or so. Given that , I am still no expert only an observer. There are several better "Hawken" builders on this site and maybe they will chime in.

Offline WestBranchSusquehanna

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Re: Hawken-half stock flint build
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2020, 07:03:55 PM »
Smylee,
Great observation and this morning, I looked again and agree with your assessment.  This was a pre-carved stock and yes I will lower the top and remove a lot of the back end of the panel.  From a picture I have of the Hawken with the converted lock, (I'd post the picture but do not have permission) the panel is much shorter than what I currently have and will be forming it to match the picture.
Thanks for the comment.
Cheers, Michael Kuriga

Offline WestBranchSusquehanna

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Re: Hawken-half stock flint build
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2020, 02:42:25 AM »
Spent most of this week polishing metal and finishing the stock. For the metal parts, I like a dark gray color with a little bit of wear look about them.  Using a degreaser, I wipe down all that I want "blued" and let sit a couple days.  For the barrel, I will card it but not let it get too rusted.  Then I give it all a bath in boiling distilled water.  For the barrel, I made up a tube of schedule 40 PVC.  This is the only time my wife lets me use the kitchen where I will boil the water and immediately, pour over the parts or into the PVC.  I let soak until it cools off enough to handle, wipe dry and then wipe with BLO.  With the barrel being warm to hot from immersion, it dries off very throughly and sucks up the BLO with no problem.  I then that 0000 steel wool and go over the parts being extra heavy in scrubbing areas I want to look used like the edges of the flats on the barrel or proud areas of the trigger guard.  I've been very please with this method.
For the stock, I first gave a light coating of actually Lancaster Maple stain to darken it a little.  Then I use Jim Chambers oil finish.  I have tried to come up with the perfect mixture of Japanese dryer and BLO but nothing I'ver been happy with.  Chambers has the formula that works so, why mess with success?
To complete the project, I ordered a 5-40 tap and bottom tap for the rib screws and am awaiting some cooper solder for the butt plate.  I carved a line where if the butt was a two piece back in the day, where they would have come together.  I will fill that line with cooper solder and buff smooth so to have a cooper brazed look.  Then I'll blue the butt plate.
This week, I'll put the engraving on the lock.








Cheers, Michael Kuriga

Offline Daryl

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Re: Hawken-half stock flint build
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2020, 03:33:49 AM »
I'm glad that little chip turned out well.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Smokey Plainsman

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Re: Hawken-half stock flint build
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2020, 11:13:25 AM »
Although there seems to have been a dearth of original half stock flintlock American rifles in this country, I have always enjoyed their looks. Your build looks great!

Offline WestBranchSusquehanna

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Re: Hawken-half stock flint build
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2020, 04:51:53 PM »
Although there seems to have been a dearth of original half stock flintlock American rifles in this country, I have always enjoyed their looks. Your build looks great!
Amazing what getting a similar piece of wood and a little milk glue can do.  Remember, the difference from a okay gun maker and a real craftsman is that the craftsman knows how to cover his mistakes!
Cheers, Michael Kuriga

Offline WestBranchSusquehanna

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Re: Hawken-half stock flint build
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2020, 09:03:40 PM »
Three full weeks and it's breathing FIRE!  Finished up this morning.  Needed a ram rod but didn't have anything bigger than 3/8 so used a birch dowel rod for now.  I'll make a hickory one later.  Had to taper it down some and shown is my RR tapering jig.  I copied it somewhat from the one Larry Potterfield shows in a video of him reproducing an ebony one.  One of the rails is set firm while the other is a bit loose.  I'll start a rod and with hand pressure tighten the sandpaper as needed.  Will move the loose rail further in when warranted.  Real easy to make on of these but remember:  Never try to taper a RR that already has a iron tip installed!  (Not that I'ver ever done that. Right!)  Guarenteed that tip will break the rod and go a-flyin'.



Sights went in with no problems.  Will have to shave off a little of the front and tap a little to the left.  Shooting a little low and to the right but that will have to wait until I have a little nicer weather.  We had snow this morning and it's getting little breezy at the moment. 
Engraved the lock very close to an original that was converted from flint to cap.  Only thing I added was my initials on the lock.  The rest of the gun is as close to what I could find out in my research to being accurate.  If not, that's okay.  I like the looks and it shoots pretty fast. 
I do have one item I want to touch up and that is the originals had butt plates that were two pieces that were copper brazed together.  I would like to re-create that look so filed a line where the two pieces of iron would have come together.  I took some cooper solder and tried to melt that into the groove I made.  No go.  Each has it's own temperature for adhering solder and if too hot, i'll loose color.  I'm going though a lot of trouble for a three inch line but, its a learning experience.  When and if I get that down, I will match up the color of the plate to match the barrel.
Here she be and hopefully will put meat in the freezer.









Cheers, Michael Kuriga

Offline wapiti22

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Re: Hawken-half stock flint build (Finished)
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2020, 10:32:19 PM »
That is a nice looking rifle. Well Done!!