Lock Update

[Blacksmoke]

Hi guys;  I hope that Chambers ,in his upgrade on his locks, has addressed the problem of incorrect cock tension. To illustrate what I mean:   measure the tension on the cock when fully forward. Use a fish scale to measure the pounds need to pull back towards full cock position. Now go to "half cock" and measure the pounds to pull the cock to "full cock". The ratio should be at least 50% of the poundage needed to pull the cock off of "full forward".  In fact, the tension needed at "full cock" should be very minimal - only a pound or so. When pulling cock to "full cock" it should bet easier not harder. If it gets harder it means the mainspring/tumbler relationship is out of sink! The hook of the mainspring should ride up to the axel of the tumbler as far as possible. This increases the "MA" of that relationship. It results in less tension on the sear nose and lessens the trigger pull poundage.  Check out fine made English locks. They example the best in lock mechanics from the 18-19 centuries.  When assembling locks from commercial manufactures I always have to reposition the mainspring to establish this geometry.  I recently talked to Kibler about his "new" CNC locks. He tells me that his locks have no "MA" in the Mainspring/tumbler relationship. I wish he had addressed that issue in his "upgrade"!  This is just my opinion after 40 yrs. of adjusting flintlocks to work properly.    Hugh Toenjes

[Bob Roller]

Most of the best English locks used a link or "stirrup"as some called it.The old style
arrangement of direct contact between tumbler and mainspring was never a good
idea but making small parts like the link and a tumbler to accommodate that  link
was beyond the capability of many shops and the people that worked in them.
On new flintlocks,I abandoned the "slip and slide"tumbler/mainspring idea in 1970
in favor of the linked style.On the 3 and 4 screw caplocks I made there was a very
definite feeling that when the hammer was first started back there was resistance
and after half cock was passed almost no resistance was felt.
I have used Jim Chambers Late Ketland external parts in the past and used my own
bench crafted parts internally and it made a very fast and slick working lock and I
want to take the time now to thank Jim for selling those great parts to me.The same
to L&R for the parts they sold to me as well.

Bob Roller

[Craig Wilcox]

Hugh, on Saturday, I received a new "Deluxe Siler" from Chambers.  It will be going on a generic Lancaster .45 in the near future.
It is, as you know, a "slip and slide" affair, and quite stiff going from rest to half-cock.  But, quite a bit lighter going from half to full cock.  It has not been polished and oiled/greased yet, and I do anticipate that it will be a bit easier to cock when I get all that done.
Would I want a stirrup to the spring? You betcha - but it is a very fast, reliable lock.  Maybe we can talk Jim into trying a "stirrup-ed" version.

[rich pierce]

Some want the best lock available and don’t care if it is historically accurate. Others want historically accurate with the best performance for that style, so would not buy a 1770s era Germanic export style lock with a stirrup linkage. I for one want historically accurate internals for the period of the lock. I’ll be putting together a TRS bridle-less Wilson trade gun lock soon - no internal bridle. It’s right for the gun I have planned.

[RAT]

Plus 1 for historically correct internals.

This includes ditching the sear spring made from flat stock.

The bridal should have a pin that mounts into a hole in the plate. I believe this is an anti-rotation feature preventing the bridal from loosening from rotational forces as the tumbler rotates. Basically you're getting 3 fixed points... the bridal screw, sear screw, and fixed pin. Later English locks replaced the pin with a 2nd bridal screw... and eventually went with 3 bridal screws and separate axle for the sear.

I'd also like to see more correct bridal shapes. I understand that it's more cost effective to use the same bridal (i.e. the Siler bridal) for multiple locks, but it looks out of place on a late English lock.

Just my 2 cents. Take it for the 2 cents it's worth.

[Bob Roller]

Plus 1 for historically correct internals.

This includes ditching the sear spring made from flat stock.

The bridal should have a pin that mounts into a hole in the plate. I believe this is an anti-rotation feature preventing the bridal from loosening from rotational forces as the tumbler rotates. Basically you're getting 3 fixed points... the bridal screw, sear screw, and fixed pin. Later English locks replaced the pin with a 2nd bridal screw... and eventually went with 3 bridal screws and separate axle for the sear.

I'd also like to see more correct bridal shapes. I understand that it's more cost effective to use the same bridal (i.e. the Siler bridal) for multiple locks, but it looks out of place on a late English lock.

Just my 2 cents. Take it for the 2 cents it's worth.

The sear spring from flat thin
spring steel is one more production expedient.
I never used them or cast mainsprings either but will admit the mainsprings are
better than they used to be and I remember all sorts of horror stories about
springs breaking and knocking a chunk out of the underside of the lock mortise.
I might have been the only one to make a sear spring with a formed and not
bent eye for the screw to go thru an d I added about 45 minutes to the making
of a lock.I thought it was worth the extra time and don't regret doing it if for no
other reason than the appearance of the mechanism that IS the lock.
Bob Roller

[Blacksmoke]

Bob: Kudo's to you for taking the time to make locks the way they should be! All of the commercial lock makers today should take lessons for you! As my old Dad would say : "If a job is worth doing - it's worth doing RIGHT"!  No it is not always about money!
 Thanks again Bob for your input.    Hugh Toenjes

[Bob Roller]

Hugh,
Many thanks for these remarks.Like I have said before and that is, when you got
a lock or trigger from me it will tell the new owner what I think of him or her and what do
I think of myself as the maker. You're right about the money.Lock and trigger making contributed but
I did other more conventional machine shop jobs in my shop and in others as well and working
on high end European cars were also a good source of income for us.
Thanks again.
Bob Roller