Author Topic: Linen Frabric...  (Read 6657 times)

Offline stretchman

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Linen Frabric...
« on: May 29, 2020, 08:44:17 PM »
I have been looking to buy linen for patch material.  I have found websites that list its weight.  Does anyone have a clue or a ball park figure as to how thick 15oz. linen would be?

Thanks
Todd

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Linen Frabric...
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2020, 09:40:55 PM »
No.  But I'll bet they'll sell you a batch of swatches, labelled, so you can measure them, and then have a base line of knowledge.  I suspect that weights of linen will be similar to those of denim, but linen is denser fabric, and doesn't compress like denim, so that may not be of any use.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Linen Frabric...
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2020, 10:13:25 PM »
Much linen is more loosely woven than cotton denim or twill. But itís very strong. I have some thick fustian which is very tough and tightly woven.  Generally if I can see light through fabric looking at bright sky I avoid it.
Andover, Vermont

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Linen Frabric...
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2020, 10:50:34 PM »
I got in contact with some folks in South Carolina who sent me some samples of their Linen. One interested me so they sold me a small batch, it was .022 thick squeezed hard. But like Rich said it was a very loose weave and didnt work as well as the denim I had been using.

Offline Jerry

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Re: Linen Frabric...
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2020, 11:25:12 PM »
I have some different weights of 100% linen. If you would like to purchase, let me know. I have settled on some close weave cotton that works good for me. If you would like to purchase, let me know. Jerry

Offline Mike from OK

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Re: Linen Frabric...
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2020, 05:51:25 AM »
I bought some linen ticking from these folks and some of the "diaper" linen too... Somewhat expensive. But they might sell swatches to you so you can decide if you like any of their stuff.


https://wmboothdraper.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=3_15

The diaper linen was very nice and tightly woven, but far too thick, .030-.035 thick.

The particular ticking I bought (didn't notice it still listed as in stock) was also tightly woven but a bit thin for my tastes... Mic'd at .015.

Mike

Offline walks with gun

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Re: Linen Frabric...
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2020, 06:19:38 AM »
   I watch thrift shops, church sales and the like for linen,   couple bucks could by you years and years of shooting.  This way you can actually look at it or measure it.


Offline madmtmike

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Re: Linen Frabric...
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2020, 03:11:52 PM »
Most linen I've found runs .013", a little on the thin side.
I like it though for hunting as it won't set the woods on fire; the patches won't burn.

Offline AsMs

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Re: Linen Frabric...
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2020, 05:06:58 PM »
If you really want to use linen for patching then I would suggest you google Wm Booth Draper. He is a provider of historical wool and linen products for re-enactors. He has many different weights of linen. He even has hemp canvas.

AsMs

Offline moleeyes36

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Re: Linen Frabric...
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2020, 07:29:26 PM »
I had poor results when I experimented with linen as patch material.  However, I used the remainder of what I had for cleaning patches and it worked very well for that.

Don Richards
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Offline yellowhousejake

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Re: Linen Frabric...
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2020, 07:53:45 PM »
I had contacted Draper about patching material and posted his response here a good while back.

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=53274.msg532852#msg532852

Really nice guy. I spoke with him several times at Sprit of Vincennes.

DAve

Offline Daryl

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Re: Linen Frabric...
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2020, 11:47:35 PM »
IIRC - the only linen I've tried was some back in about 1973. This was while I was experimenting with patch thicknesses.
I do recall it was fairly thick, but quite a loose weave and didn't work as well as the .022" "brushed" light blue denim I found
in a sewing store, in Smithers, B.C.  I've been using denim ever since and although some pocket drill or twill I used with some
.400" balls in a .40 rifle did very well for grouping.
For all my guns now, it's denim, either in 8oz. which I measure at .0195" to .020" or 10oz. I measure at .022" to .0225".
I do use some 12 or 14 ounce denim in the .69 but they are very tight loading, except for when using 15 bore balls at .675/.677".
With those, I can use WW alloy due to their being .013" smaller than the bore.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Mike from OK

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Re: Linen Frabric...
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2020, 06:22:41 AM »
Just a note...

While styles and materials have changed, don't discount ticking as later or post period of the era we study. Mattress or pillow ticking of one form or another has been in use for about 1000 years...

http://www.lorangerieshop.com/2016/09/26/mattress-ticking/

Mike

Offline Mike from OK

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Re: Linen Frabric...
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2020, 07:15:27 AM »
I got to thinking about this and decided to double check...

Here is the linen ticking I got from WB Draper... No good for patching, at least not to me. But would probably suffice to line a bag... Squeezed down tight the calipers show it as .013




And just more proof my memory is shot...  the linen diaper cloth or "pilcher" cloth mic'd at .025 not .030 or .035 like I thought I remembered. It might work if you like a super tight combo. This stuff is also woven really tight. Not much light gets through when held up in front of a bare bulb...




Here are the links to both those items if you're interested...

The ticking:

https://wmboothdraper.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3_15_18&products_id=47

The diaper linen:

https://wmboothdraper.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3_15_18&products_id=46

Just a heads up... Bring your checkbook.

Mike





Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Linen Frabric...
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2020, 05:41:45 PM »
 The linen material you are looking for is a commercially produced material that is traditionally used to make linen napkins, and tablecloths, as well as aprons, and dish towels,  for the restaurant industry. I donít think you are going to find anything in the twenty two thousandths range, about eighteen is the thickest Iíve found. Linen doesnít rot like cotton, It can be heavily bleached without damage to the materials integrity, unlike cotton which can be weakened by bleach, age, and sunlight, along with pressure from overly tight loads.

  Hungry Horse

Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: Linen Frabric...
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2020, 07:17:22 PM »
One yard of that diaper linen, with shipping, is about $38.  If your patches are 2" square, you would get 486 patches from the 54" wide cloth, or a bit more than 7 cents per patch.  The smaller the patch, of course, the more you get, and thus lessen the cost.  0.025" thick should be thick enuf for most of us.
Craig Wilcox
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Linen Frabric...
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2020, 07:43:45 PM »
If I planned to use linen for patching Iíd select this. I expect it runs about 20-22 https://www.wmboothdraper.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=29&products_id=27
Andover, Vermont

Offline Daryl

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Re: Linen Frabric...
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2020, 08:48:14 PM »

And just more proof my memory is shot...  the linen diaper cloth or "pilcher" cloth mic'd at .025 not .030 or .035 like I thought I remembered. It might work if you like a super tight combo. This stuff is also woven really tight. Not much light gets through when held up in front of a bare bulb...



Just a heads up... Bring your checkbook.

Mike

Hi Mike- I was wondering what the measurement on the linen would be if you pinched the jaws of your dial calipers between fore finder and thumb- hard as you can?
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Linen Frabric...
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2020, 10:51:18 PM »
 There are linen services that supply high end restaurants that routinely end up with table cloths, napkins, towels, and aprons made of linen that are stained beyond use. They can be purchased for very little. This stuff is woven so tight that if you could get it in twenty two thousandths thickness you would need a sheet metal break to fold it.

  Hungry Horse

Offline Daryl

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Re: Linen Frabric...
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2020, 11:17:30 PM »
.030" is what I measure 12 oz. denim at, using my dial calipers, with the pinched tine method.
.034" is what I measure 14 oz. denim at, using the same method.
With my mic, using the ratchet, I measure those at .025" and .030". Taylor's mic measures thicker than
 this as his ratchet is not as strongly set as mine happens to be.
If I crank down hard on the barrel, (which is abuse of the tool) they both go to .002"- so what are they actually?

We use our best methods and report how they shoot - I guess that is the best we can do.
Using my dial calipers I measure OxYoke .018" at .015" av. and their .020" at .017" av. they measure much thinner with the mic.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Mike from OK

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Re: Linen Frabric...
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2020, 11:34:01 PM »
Daryl if I squeeze the jaws together like you suggested the diaper linen mic's at about .021 or .022

The ticking still came out about .013

Mike

Offline Daryl

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Re: Linen Frabric...
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2020, 11:55:45 PM »
Thanks Mike. Sounds perfect for most of my rifles and the smoothbore too!
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Mike from OK

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Re: Linen Frabric...
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2020, 01:38:06 AM »
Thanks Mike. Sounds perfect for most of my rifles and the smoothbore too!

Happy to help.

Mike

Offline stretchman

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Re: Linen Frabric...
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2020, 04:58:45 PM »
That was a-lot of great information.
Thanks
Todd

Offline Roger B

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Re: Linen Frabric...
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2020, 06:21:07 PM »
I use Blick artist canvas which is Belgian linen. Not sure how thick but it has to be .020 at least & is very tightly woven. Very hard to tear by hand. It is very expensive but you can shoot a lot on a yard that is 5 ft wide. A guy at our range put me onto it. He was shooting expensive Pedersoli pistols, and doing it really well, but I never saw him there again. It doesnt work for every gun, but when it does, the results are excellent.Roger B.
Never underestimate the sheer destructive power of a minimally skilled, but highly motivated man with tools.