Cleaning Between Shots?

[Jeff Murray]

I have tried several commercial lubes to see how they perform with and without cleaning.  In the drier western climate, the ball gets progressively harder to seat on the powder without swabbing the barrel.  Also found that with greater resistance down the bore and pressure required to seat the ball, the shot to shot velocity became less consistent.  For target shooting, the difference could have an effect on your score.  For hunting, where you usually reload quickly and probably don't fire that many shots, the result likely would not be as critical.  I have found Hoppes Number 9+ effective as a patch lubricant and for wetting cleaning patches, and usually swab between shots if time allows.  I plan to experiment with TOTW Mink Oil to see how that would work in the no swab scenario with little humidity.

[MuskratMike]

Not trying to criticize anyone but unless you only shoot from a bench or trail walk why more tha 1 lube? If you took the time to develop that perfect lube, powder load, patch and ball why would you use a Mr. Flintlock, spit, or other when not hunting. Just use whatever lube you hunt with and shoot from the bag whenever possible. A lot of this sport is muscle memory, point of contact and repetition.
Again each to their own, not trying to criticize.

[smylee grouch]

Some people don't want a water base lube for hunting so they use something like tow mink oil for hunting and the water based lube for line shooting. If you shoot tefflon coated patching you are well advised to clean between shots. Some of the tefflon coated patching is the best patching for consistent shot to shot velocity and grouping ability so those bench, cross stix, and chunk gun shooters use it almost with out fail. I used it just for that reason in those types of rifles but do use a mix of TOW mink oil/bear oil for all other shooting and never have to clean between shots. I like my patching to be soaked clear through with no excessive gobs of lube on the patch surface.

[alacran]

Not trying to criticize anyone but unless you only shoot from a bench or trail walk why more tha 1 lube? If you took the time to develop that perfect lube, powder load, patch and ball why would you use a Mr. Flintlock, spit, or other when not hunting. Just use whatever lube you hunt with and shoot from the bag whenever possible. A lot of this sport is muscle memory, point of contact and repetition.
Again each to their own, not trying to criticize.

I mostly agree with you. That is if all your guns are for hunting, and all other shooting done with them are practice for hunting.
I have two rifles that are dedicated target rifles and will never see a day out in the woods. Guns are kind of like golf clubs. Don't use a driver to putt.

[MuskratMike]

Alacran: I probably could have done a better job in writing my last post. I agree with you 100% if you have specialty rifles for specific purposes. I just have seen a tend with new shooters who seem to want to reinvent the wheel. It is a simple sport that can be taken to many levels of complexity based on your needs, disciplines of shooting, numbers of rifles and your ability.
Thanks for the thoughtful rebuttal on my post I for one appreciate it.

[Daryl]

 I haven't had to wipe while shooting since that first year I started in this game in 1972/3. I guess I just learned quickly what it took
to shoot without fouling building up in the bore. I had help, indeed, I had help. Old Lester H. Hawkes of Walcot road (BC), formerly of
Kalispel Montana, taught me that wiping was not necessary if one used a decent patch and that the muzzle condition and shape was
instrumental in being able to load such combinations.  He didn't go into details, just said "do it, you'll find what works and what doesn't".
This is a picture he took of 'the gang' at Kalispel in the early 50's.
What a guy. The gal in the middle of the picture, is Irene, Les' wife. She's holding a rifle Les did "some work" on.

[RANGER94]

Timeless picture!

[Marcruger]

Hello Ranger,

I started out shooting by wiping between shots, as I learned from a target shooter.  I did that for years, and always had troubles at intervals. 

I read Daryl's method of wet-patching, and tried it.  Being an engineer I like to know the "whys" of doing things.  The wet patching really works, and makes sense.  For hunting of course use mink oil so your powder charge does not get contaminated. 

Thank you for serving our country sir.  My dad was 82nd Abn and 16th SF in the '50s and '60s. 

God Bless,   Marc

[RANGER94]

Hello Ranger,

I started out shooting by wiping between shots, as I learned from a target shooter.  I did that for years, and always had troubles at intervals. 

I read Daryl's method of wet-patching, and tried it.  Being an engineer I like to know the "whys" of doing things.  The wet patching really works, and makes sense.  For hunting of course use mink oil so your powder charge does not get contaminated. 

Thank you for serving our country sir.  My dad was 82nd Abn and 16th SF in the '50s and '60s. 

God Bless,   Marc

DE OPPRESSO LIBER

[Fillwa]

I’ve experimented with several lube recipes over the years.
TC Bore butter: Worked great, smells like sore muscle ointment (not good for hunting), messy and a PITA
Murphy’s oil soap, Hydrogen peroxide, Alcohol: Worked fine but I did not like the brown sludge from oxidation caused by Hydrogen peroxide. Same result substituting peroxide with Simply Green: Worked great but also had oxidation.

I’m now using just Murphy’s and alcohol successfully. When done I use Dawn dish soap and water, let it soak then run a brush up and down, drain, repeat.
I don’t wipe between shots and typically shoot 15 to 17 shots. I generously pre-lube my patches and store in a repurposed pill bottle. I place corn meal between powder and patched ball.

I love this sport! And having fun getting acquainted with with a flintlock after shooting a percussion for decades. YeHaw!

[Mule Brain]

Never wiped between shots, and not gonna start.

Recently shot a five day match, no wiping, no cleaning until the match was over.

[bones92]

Mule Brain, you did not wipe the rifle over the course of 5 days of shooting?   And the fouling in the bore did not cause issues when loading each morning?

I am starting to think my patches are too dry, not imparting enough lubricant on the bore while loading, and giving the fouling ideal conditions to stick to the bore and harden.

[smallpatch]

Listen to Daryl!
Why would anyone want to do that much cleaning and wiping while shooting?  Keeping the cleaning patch companies in business?
I’d rather just shoot, and clean at the end of the day.

[Daryl]

Jeff, and bones92, the condition of the muzzle is conducive to loading tight combinations - do a search here for muzzle crowning- that might help.
The smooth radius we make on the muzzle's crown, allows the ball and patch to conform into the lands and grooves.  If there is no compression of
the ball by the patch, in the bottom of the grooves, the patch cannot clean the last load while you load the next one, and the fouling will build up,
shot to shot and the bore's condition will be in a state of change, every shot.
With a tight combination, the bore's condition remains the same after the first shot, though to the 100th shot, however shooting that many shots
will have a bit of a buildup in the breech, meaning you will not be able to seat the ball as deeply. The difference is usually only 1/4" & doesn't appear
to increase past that.
In Mule Brain's situation, a wet, tight patch allowed him to load the first shot the second through 5th day of shooting. I have done the same with my
14 bore rifle when using a .030" patch and .682" ball in the .690" bore. I usually fire the first shot of the day on a different target or gong as a "fouling"
shot. The second etc, of that day load identically. Only that first one is a big crunchy, but still loadable with the hickory rod. Well actually, it's osage now.

[bones92]

Good info, gents.  I think I will try a bit wetter patches, and maybe try something beside Ballistol.    I also may try using pillow ticking versus the pre-cut patches I got from TOTW.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Bones:  Ballistol and water, ie:  1:5 through 1:10 ratio, is a great patch lube.  But you have to soak the patches gently squeezing out the run-off.  My patches are still almost dripping wet.  I like water soluble oil and water for patch material in my pre-cut patches.

[Daryl]

Good info, gents.  I think I will try a bit wetter patches, and maybe try something beside Ballistol.    I also may try using pillow ticking versus the pre-cut patches I got from TOTW.

Patch thickness is where you get the "cleaning while loading" routine. A wet patch is, well, wet. Slightly damp or dry does not work for this, whether the lube is WWWF+oil, Windex, water, spit,
Mr. Flintlock's lube, Track's Mink Oil, Neetsfoot oil, LHV, Hornady's BP lube/cleaner or whatever. They all pretty much load the same with no wiping - IF, the ball and compressed patch combination at least come VERY close to the bottom of the grooves. In my .69 & .50, I can load continually without wiping, combinations that shoot just fine at close range, that show brown scorch marks on the recovered patches from each groove, yet they still clean the bore just fine while loading (with lighter loads).  With a ball only .005" smaller than the grooves and an 8 ounce (.018/.019") denim patch, This type of shooting will occur.  These combinations usually do not shoot as well at longer ranges such as 50yards and beyond & tighter combinations are needed.
The "ultimate" in accuracy is obtained by using even larger balls, bore size to .010" larger than the bore AND .015" or thicker patches. That's what the match & BR shooters use. These types of loads are too difficult to load with the rifle's rod, thus we try different combinations to find what ball size and patch thickness and lube works for us, that gives us the accuracy we want or can get by with, while using combinations we can load with the rifle's rod.
I believe we've found the combinations of muzzle condition, ball size and patching that gives very close to match-shooting results, but allows us to load relatively easily.  Is this the last word on this dilemma, absolutely not, but we are satisfied with what we've found. 
Not everyone has the same requirements or expectations in accuracy, ease of loading, or type of shooting.  What works for us, might not work for you at all, but the accuracy & long shooting strings we get, comes from the ball/patch/powder combinations at which we have arrived.

[bones92]

D Taylor Sapergia, I have been using straight Ballistol.  Probably overly prone to drying out quickly.

I assume you mean 1 part Ballistol to 5 or 10 parts water?   That would make sense.

[Bob McBride]

My goal is to not wipe between. Depending on the gun and scenario I have to swab every 4-5 to on my squirrel gun I’ve shot as many as 40 shots with no loss of accuracy and no swabbing and the 40th was as easy as the second. That’s perfection in BP shooting if you ask me.

[Daryl]

I feel the same way, Bob - no wiping needed.
Yes bones92 - Taylor, my bro, was referring to using those ratios of Ballistol mixed with water.
I've never tried it myself - still working on a gallon of WWWF with a bit of Neetsfoot oil added.
WWWF- is simply winter windshield washer fluid (-45F) with oil, "Bluethunder" only.  I do not use the pink stuff as
it contains other chemicals than just water, alcohol and colouring.
I can buy a gallon of mixed fluid of water and alcohol cheaper than I can buy a pint of alcohol to mix my own.

[bones92]

Very good.  I will keep these suggestions in mind.

[smylee grouch]

Unless I'm using Teflon patching I don't like to clean between shots but I do like to clean between shoots.   

[smokinbuck]

I have read this post with interest. I shoot table and some over the log so I am shooting tight patch and ball combos with heavy loads. I and most of the ladies & gents always "wipe" between shots. Note I said wipe, not clean. All that is used is a spit patch, both sides, and one dry patch, both sides. Trying to keep the condition of the barrel as close as possible, not clean, on each shot is what is being attempted. "Cleaning" is for after the match is completed.

[bones92]

Just a follow up...

We had our Fall Frolic at Lafayette Longrifles this weekend.  I tried using much wetter patches, and using a Ballistol/water mix.  Made a BIG difference.  Never swabbed the bore till after I was done shooting.  Loading next ball, even after the rifle sitting for 30 minutes, was not too bad.   

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Bones:  I always load my rifle as soon after my shot as I can, ie:  powder and patched ball, BUT NO PRIME.  That way, I don't have to deal with dried on fouling that would be best wiped out first.  Some ranges may not permit this procedure.