Author Topic: Can't stop the bore rust  (Read 5398 times)

Offline HighUintas

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Can't stop the bore rust
« on: October 24, 2023, 12:24:57 AM »
I seem to always get rusty patches. After cleaning after shooting.

Here's my process for cleaning:

Cool/cold water in a bucket. Remove barrel and put breech in bucket. Pump the rod with a jag and patch up and down for about 5 minutes. Rinse with clean cool water multiple times.

Blow out with air compressor. Dry patch x 2

Spray liberally and n the bore with wd40. Patch it to distribute the oil throughout the bore. Put in some more wd40. Spray into touch hole. Store barrel muzzle down overnight.

Dry patch muzzle the next day and then patch the bore with an oil that is a better rust preventative than wd40.

Here's some pictures of my patches from drying the bore after pumping the water in and out as well as a few bore pictures. I always look at the bore to see what's going on as I'm curious about how it looks in there. It doesn't look as rusty as the patches suggest.

Thoughts?












Offline Darkhorse

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Re: Can't stop the bore rust
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2023, 12:38:16 AM »
I don't think that's rust. It looks like Bore Butter to me. What are you lubing your patches with?
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Offline HighUintas

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Re: Can't stop the bore rust
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2023, 01:05:44 AM »
I've never used bore butter. I use either Hoppes black powder cleaner/lube or mink oil from Track

Offline wolf

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Re: Can't stop the bore rust
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2023, 01:07:19 AM »
water+ steel + air= rust. i know a lot of people clean with water, i don't, i use Windex. i never get rust,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I have never "harvested" a critter but I have killed quite a few,,,,,,,,,,,

Offline JEH

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Re: Can't stop the bore rust
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2023, 03:09:51 AM »
I've used Windex for years as well. Never remove the barrels either. Scrape the breech face, few wet patches, dry and 3n1 oil. Another dry patch a couple days later just to check and re oil. Works for me

Offline RichG

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Re: Can't stop the bore rust
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2023, 05:49:28 AM »
WD-40 displaces water; doesn't do much to prevent rust. Use Breakfree or something similar after cleaning.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Can't stop the bore rust
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2023, 06:32:00 AM »
I don't understand either. Your cleaning regime is about what I do and I never get rust and I don't put any other oil into the bore after
patching the excess WD40 out. Your bore pictures sure looks like rust to me.
I use only the first bucket of water for cleaning. I use clean dry patches to dry until they get VERY grabby, THEN you know you've dried the bore.
I then spray WD40 into the bore until it runs out the vent. The first patch down the bore blasts WD40 out the vent or nipple seat.
That patch is then used to wipe down the outside of the barrel, re-install and whether it's a week, month or 2 years later, no rust - clean patch.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Online bob in the woods

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Re: Can't stop the bore rust
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2023, 06:38:56 AM »
Is that a flintlock or percussion barrel ?  I'm asking because apparently there have been some caps put there lately which are corrosive  :(   Even so, your flushing should get rid of anything and everything

Offline HighUintas

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Re: Can't stop the bore rust
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2023, 07:28:20 AM »
It's a flintlock barrel.

Daryl, it could be I'm not getting the bore dry enough before using wd40. Since it's a round groove colerain, those grooves are hard to get a patch deep into. I figured that a little bit of moisture left is ok as long as I douse it well with wd40, since it's a water displacer and make sure to patch and reoil after letting it set a bit.

Maybe I'll hit the inside with maroon scotch Brite on a brush to remove the rust, reclean it, and make sure I get it bone dry before oiling.

Offline alacran

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Re: Can't stop the bore rust
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2023, 12:11:47 PM »
Some city water has a lot of chlorine in it. I use Blacksolve with diluted Balistol to clean and I use distilled water to make the solutions.
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Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Can't stop the bore rust
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2023, 05:09:21 PM »
I agree about the city water especially at certain times of the year as some water treatment plants use more chlorine during high run off events. I would clean that bore with brake cleaner also as you scotch bright it then go back to your regular cleaning as I use your method and it works great for me.

Offline HighUintas

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Re: Can't stop the bore rust
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2023, 06:33:39 PM »
Thanks for the tips. That's an important point on the city water. I have a water softener also, which could be influencing that.

I'll get some distilled water to do the final rinse before drying and see if that helps.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Can't stop the bore rust
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2023, 08:28:39 PM »
Interesting about the water softener. Most of those I am/was familiar with back in the late 60's used a lot of salt. Hmmmmm.
I would do as you suggested, Scotch Brite it, I'd use maroon or one softer as even 0000 wool will do it for you, then re-oil.
I use city water in my barrels, fairly soft, but fairly high in chlorine.
I try to get the barrel as dry as possible with new flannelette patches (I do re-use them). The jag is turned down enough that I can use a doubled patch for cleaning and drying,
to ensure I get to the bottom of the grooves.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Can't stop the bore rust
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2023, 09:22:04 PM »
Daryl's last sentence is important.  One flannel patch is insufficient to go to the bottoms of the grooves and remove fouling, water, and oil.  Turn down your cleaning jag about .020" so you can double your cleaning patches.  There should be a significant resistance to pulling and pushing the cleaning rod down your bore.  It only takes me about eight strokes to completely flush out the fouling from my rifle barrel.  Then I remove the rod from the bore and turn the barrel muzzle down to drain while I dry off my cleaning rod.
When I'm in my shop after a shooting session, I use my machinist's vise with rubber pads to hold the barrel for drying with clean dry cotton flannel patches.  The first one comes out with dark grey, even yellow/green oxide.  the second often has a bit of grey, and the third comes out almost perfectly white.  The forth set of patches goes into the bore easily but is difficult to withdraw as the patches bunch up against themselves in the dry bore.  These come out a little shredded or worn looking and perfectly white.  Like Daryl, I squirt WD 40 down the bore, wet a patch with the same, and force it down the bore with some authority, to blast the fliuid out the vent.  I do this to ensure that there is no water left at the breech face.  I have used almost every oil there is over the years, for oiling the bore and outside of the barrel for rust prevention.  But now I use synthetic motor oil, and the steel seems to like it.  My oiled patch comes out without any additional colour to it, and I find no rust whatsoever in the bore or on the outside surfaces, no matter how long I store the rifle, shotgun, or pistol.
I will also add that at a rendezvous, I almost always clean all the guns I've shot that day in the same water...rifle first, pistol second and shotgun last.  My black powder cleaning bucket is a length of black pvc pipe about 15" tall x 4 1/2" in diameter, with a cap glued on.  I have a disc of 1/2" plywood in the bottom to support the tang of the rifle barrel.  After cleaning three guns, especially the double barrel shotgun, the water is black soup.  But I don't bother changing out the water during the cleaning regime.
I remove the barrels from my muzzleloaders every time I clean.  I am careful not to slip and mark the stock around the pins or keys, and the pins or keys always are withdrawn and are returned to the stock from the left or off side, same as the lock screws.  I confess that the holes around the pins in my rifles become loose after about five years of continually doing this, so I spatula a bit of beeswax over the holes with a small screwdriver, on both sides of the stock to prevent loss of the pins.  I find this preferable to leaving the barrel in the wood to clean, splashing fouled water and oil all over the stock, being unsure if I got all the fouling out of the breech area, and having the pins rust in the wood, and become impossible to remove without breaking out pieces of the stock.  Just my way of doing this job.  I like cleaning my guns and don't find it to be an onerous or tedious job...about 15 - 20 minutes to clean a longrifle.  One last thing - I remove and toothbrush the lock in water each time I clean my rifles too.  In the shop, the compressor is handy for blowing away the water, and the spritz of WD 40 too, prior to oiling the action and reinstalling the lock.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Offline MuskratMike

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Re: Can't stop the bore rust
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2023, 09:52:42 PM »
To HighUnitas: On you original question on the rust I believe you're doing everything correct. The one addition I do is after the application of WD40 I only let the gun sit with the barrel pointing down for a couple of hours at the most. By then the WD40 has done its job. I then liberally coat a patch with my favorite lube of 50/50 T.O.T.W. Mink oil and pure neatsfoot oil. This provides a barrier to any rust forming. Now here in the Pacific N.W, we don't have the heat and humidity others suffer through.
If you have hard water, or use an online water softener I would consider buying distilled water.
Best of luck,
"Muskrat" Mike
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Keep your eyes on the skyline, your flint sharp and powder dry.

Offline Bsharp

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Re: Can't stop the bore rust
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2023, 04:21:18 AM »
Try using:

WD-40 Specialist Corrosion Inhibitor

Not just WD40

Long term storage, RIG Gun Grease
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Offline smallpatch

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Re: Can't stop the bore rust
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2023, 05:32:53 AM »
Iíve personally never seen yellow rust. Some thing is being removed from your rifling.
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Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: Can't stop the bore rust
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2023, 04:31:21 PM »
A good wipe  with dexron will stop rust forming.

Best,
R.

Offline HighUintas

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Re: Can't stop the bore rust
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2023, 06:30:29 PM »
Iíve personally never seen yellow rust. Some thing is being removed from your rifling.

In person I think the color is much more orange than yellow

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Can't stop the bore rust
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2023, 06:39:33 PM »
Another option too try would be JB bore cleaner. This paste has a ULTA fine silicon grit that might scrub that color out. I have used it mixed in with my bear oil path lube for an afternoon of shooting a friends rifle and it helped clear up his somewhat cloudy bore.

Offline HighUintas

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Re: Can't stop the bore rust
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2023, 06:41:30 PM »
Here's what I did:

Turned down my jag by about 0.020 on the ring closest to the screw. The middle one was probably half that. The front ring just had a few thou taken off. I can double patch perfectly now! Bore is 0.58 and the jag is 0.550, 0.540, 0.530.

Gray 3m pad on a jag and have it probably 25 strokes. Maybe more.

0000 steel wool on the jag tight enough that it was some work getting it to move in the bore initially. Probably 25-50 strokes.

Ball of 0000 steel wool put into bore and pushed all the way down with the fouling scraper. Put pressure on it and turned it for a few minutes to clean up the breech face.

Rinsed out a few times with tap water. Rinsed out a few times with distilled water.

Blew out with air compressor from the touch hole.

Double patches several times to dry, until it was feeling very dry. The patches were gray instead of orange! They never turned completely white though. This was the same in the past when I've scrubbed the rust out with 3m but it didn't seem to stay that way very long and soon turned orange again.

Checked with my scope... Yup it looked pretty dry, and nice and clean and probably a bit smoother.

Doused with wd40. Saturated a patch with wd40 and rammed that sucker home as usual and squirted some oil out the vent hole.

Let sit muzzle down overnight because it was too late to wait a couple hours and patch it again.

Patched it this morning and the patch was gray... No orange rust. Ran a new patch with oil in the bore a few times and sat muzzle down.


So, we'll see how this looks next time I go to shoot and clean.

Thanks for the tips! I'll try some more of the suggestions if I see more rust later 😀

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Can't stop the bore rust
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2023, 07:03:21 PM »
Sounds like a good scrubbing. Hope it works out for you.  ;)

Offline Daryl

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Re: Can't stop the bore rust
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2023, 08:12:16 PM »
I no longer use my compressor to blow out the water, but when I did, I shoved the rubber cone into the muzzle creating a seal, then applied the air, to blow the water out the vent or nipple seat.
With my barrels (maybe they are 12L14?), my last drying patches come out with grey on them. I think this is actually metal, as those patches, if in the can at the back door, have rust streaks on them, next morning or 2.
My WD40 patch always comes out clean, just wet with the WD40. Next day or week later, if patched, that one is also clean.
If it was grey or had streaks on it, likely the bore was not perfectly clean in the corners of the lands/bore.
It normally takes me 5 patches to clean a ML.  1 for pumping water into and out of the bore, and 3 for drying, one for oiling. Sometimes it takes 4 to dry the bore.
I run each one in twice, turning it inside out for the second push down and up.
Daryl

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Offline Dphariss

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Re: Can't stop the bore rust
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2023, 02:07:59 AM »
Its not uncommon to have a LITTLE tan on a patch the next day.
A lot means that the bore is not properly dried/dewatered. Now the protectant used may actually be pulling stuff out that the cleaning did not remove. Fouling is very water soluble, iron oxide not so much.
I also tend to only clean with water and maybe some windex or a little dawn. But these need to be well rinsed.
I use G-96 Gun Treatment to remove any dampness and protect. But I spray a fair dose in the muzzle and wait for it to appear at the vent. Then stand the barrel/rifle muzzle down on a well folded paper towel to let it drain. This SHOULD remove any moisture I then follow with a patch after cleaning the lock etc. Then a slightly damp  G-96 patch and then after assembly stand it muzzle down over night. You will also find that once the wet patches, tight ones come out clean that the dying patches may show some black. As a test put these on a shelf to dry and often the black will convert to red iron oxide not grey fouling color. The powder gases, I have been told, though heat, pressure and the high carbon content of the gases tends to carburize a molecule thick layer and this may come off with cleaning or the solvent of the preservative coating may cause it to come off on patches. I think 4140-4150 barrels are less susceptible to this having  both chrome & molybdenum. But finding a ML barrel made of this is very rare. WD-40 will dewater things as well and it will also pull things off the steel that normal BP cleaning might not.
This does not happen with blackpowder guns cleaned from the breech. 

JB bore cleaner is an abrasive paste and getting it all out might be difficult on a ML arm
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: Can't stop the bore rust
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2023, 02:10:53 AM »
And I use white diaper flannel for cleaning patches. Like Daryi stated you want to get to the bottom of the grooves the thin patches used for cleaning shallow groove brass suppository barrels are not very good for this.
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