Odd shotgun load to improve pattern

[rich pierce]

On another forum there’s a guy who proposes the following load to improve shotgun patterns in a cylinder bore:

1 volume of FFG
Card wad
1 volume shot
Cushion wad soaked in olive oil.

I tried it a little yesterday in 2, 20ga guns. I used 1 and 1/8 oz of #5 shot by volume and equal powder.

In my cylinder bore GM 32” octagonal barrel, not much difference in pellet count.

In my original percussion double, the right barrel seems to be cylinder bore. I doubled the pellet count in a 7” circle using the weird load. I only had a few sheets of 30” paper and had switched to some pistol targets. All shots were at 25 yards. Will do more testing prepping for spring turkey.

Anyone else hear of such a load or have favorite pattern tightening loads for cylinder bores?

[Shovelbuck]

I'll have to try this. I've tried about everything else in an original 16 gauge double, and can't get it to pattern worth a darn.

[CTShooter]

I use it in my Beretta 12ga perc. only difference is I use cut wool scraps,(just because I have a bunch of scrap) instead of a cushion wad 4-5 pieces makes it about 3/8"thick, and a thin overshot card before the wool wad.

I never actually counted out the hits on paper, looked like enough to do the job and 2 turkey say it works, 22 and 27 yards paced off

[John SMOthermon]

Rich,

The version of the load the Gentleman posted on the other Forum last week was 65grn 2fg, topped by 1 Nitro Card, 110 grns volume measure  (1 1/2 ozs) of #6 shot, with a thin overshot card on top of the shot , capped off with 1/2" fiber wad soaked in Olive Oil.

I still have a lot more testing to do , but it did improve the pattern from my 16 gauge open cylinder bore tremendously .

In his original load he used a thin overshot card instead of the Nitro Card I do believe.....

My gun does shoot low, so I've got to correct that issue as well.

These targets were both shot at 25 yards. 8.5 X 11 paper.





 

[Skychief]

I've heard of this guy and his load.  Highly recommended.

[John SMOthermon]

Thanks Sky, I was hoping you would chime in.  lol

[rich pierce]

Thanks for clarifying the load.  I’ll try upping the shot and see if that helps the pattern while passing the tin can test.

[Pukka Bundook]

Rich,

I'm still all scarred up from the catfights we had over on the other forum! LOL!

Why don't we ask "WHY" it works and beat ourselves half dead again?.    (I say this All in fun!)

Old saying from home, and variations on it maybe everywhere;  "Little powder much lead, shoots far kills dead".

Been cold up here, but Will try it and my regular charges when weather warms up a bit.

[Brokennock]

Things got a little ridiculous with "why it works," over there. I think there is a thin over shot card or something between the shot and the soaked cushion wad, to keep the shot from pressing into the wet wad material.

But Skychief can/Should, clarify. I seem to recall also that it improved patterns in cylinder bore guns when loaded the way his final description was stated, anything changed or omitted didn't improve patterns, and it didn't seem to work in choked bore guns.

[Skychief]

Yes.

From reports of others, the load may or may not make denser patterns out of choked bores. 

Used with cylinder bores, most report results like mine, repeatable denser patterns, mostly significantly denser.

The load is:
Powder
Hard or nitro card
Shot
Thin card
Full cushion wad (COMPLETELY saturated with olive oil. Other oils can work as well)

The load evolved into the above through many trials.

It's best suited in my opinion for stationary game shooting (squirrel, turkey, etc), game with smaller vitals (turkey heads/necks, grey squirrel, etc), and game that may present opportunities outside of the range of conventional loadings.

I suppose it would make a fine trap load too, but, I'm not a trap shooter, so can't say for sure.

I've been using it with total satisfaction for a few years now.  My muzzleloading friends here in Indiana are all sticking with it after patterning their fowlers and hunting with it.

The only time I find myself using a conventional load is in tight thickets rabbit hunting behind the dogs where any opportunities are really close.

Hopefully the load will help anybody here looking for tighter/denser patterns.

Best regards, Skychief

[L. Akers]

Skychief, your load, minus the cushion wad, is the load advocated by V. M. Starr back in the 50s/60s.  In my guns I use this load except place 1/2 a lubricated cushion wad over the nitro card under the shot.  I get very even patterns with no holes.

[Daryl]

I used powder, 2 or 3 thin overshot cards, then shot, then overshot thin card. This load powdered clay birds. I used it as I saw it noted here - about 4 or 5 years ago.
The gun I used was a heavy, non-choked 11 bore H-Whal ball and shot gun.(say this due to the 9 pound weight and 1 1/4" breech.)


how do you upload a photo

[Brokennock]

Skychief, your load, minus the cushion wad, is the load advocated by V. M. Starr back in the 50s/60s.  In my guns I use this load except place 1/2 a lubricated cushion wad over the nitro card under the shot.  I get very even patterns with no holes.

We mostly all.know this. It's mostly the soaked, heavy, lubed, cushion wad,,,,, and the crucial but unorthodox placement thereof,,, which makes this loading unique and effective in tightening patterns.

[Skychief]

If I recall correctly, Mr Starr was shooting choked guns.  In any case I've tried "his" load versus "my" load and there was no comparison from my cylinder bored guns.

Best regards, Skychief

[Daryl]

Interesting that the heavy lubed wad 'falling' back through the pattern does not effect it.  We will have to experiment with that when warmer weather comes our way.

Thanks for the info.

[Skychief]

Sure Daryl.  Good luck!

Best regards, Skychief

[somehippy]

I have the same thoughts.  Can't help but wonder where it goes (the tick oiled wad).  Would be neat to somehow see in slow motion.  I guess it makes sense that it would hold the shot together up the barrel better than a thin card.  I've never shot shot from a front stuffer (soon though) so I'm gleaning all the tips and tricks I can .  Cool stuff, thanks for sharing.

[Pukka Bundook]

My thoughts very briefly and only the once in this thread, LOL!   (Still bandaged up from the "other" discussion;  :-))

Theory;
I think the heavy wad must stay up with the shot longer, and by the time the shot 'passes" it, the  shot is dispersed, so very little of it is interfered with by the wad.
This is Theory only!!

I do  want to try  this loading  out as well, and ASAP.
What I do not quite understand, is that it appears plenty of folks get lousy patterns form their guns, and at very close range too.   A decently cylinder bored and Regulated barrel should be capable of good consistent results out to 40 yards, with normal wadding.

There, all done!  :-)

All the best,
Richard. 

[CTShooter]

Richard

You hit it exactly, what is "normal wadding"?, when I started with a muzzleloader shotgun, I got a different "normal" load from everyone I asked.

To this day I don't know what would be considered "normal wadding", I know my first few range trips almost made me give up on the gun.

[Pukka Bundook]

CT,

Peter Hawker (The Father of Gameshooting" ) in his book "Instructions to young sportsmen..."  says that some old gunners still used paper as wadding,  A lot used "Pasteboard, which I gather is likely as thick as a thin nitro card wad, and some used felt wads. also cork.
He advised the latter types to be in thickness, about 1/3 the diameter of the bore, so Not too thick.  (No thick cushion wads over the powder)
Also a thin wad over the shot, he also said  a wad cutter that cut  a groove down one side, as it aided seating by reducing air pressure.  (Top wad only)


Before his time, felt from an old saddle was popular, as was hat,  (felt again) and hanging moss from trees, plus the ivy leaves for reducing fire risk at dry times.
Most anything will make  a good wad, but not wool!

The thin felt wads the Colonel recommended would have to be pretty hard dense felt, not soft gutless stuff.

Best,
R,

PS, He also recommended loads a good bit heavier than we use today.

[Daryl]

Sure Daryl.  Good luck!

Best regards, Skychief

Taylor's 20 and the Manton 15 bore, both have no chokes.

[ddoyle]

My gun does shoot low, so I've got to correct that issue as well.

Try changing where you glue your cheek to the stock- The gun shoots low with your face in a specific place.

[jaeren]

http://www.muzzleloadingshotguns.com/articles/feltwadsformuzzleloadingshotguns

http://www.muzzleloadingshotguns.com/articles/makingmuzzleloadingshotcartridges

http://www.muzzleloadingshotguns.com/articles/skeetandmuzzleloadingshotcartridges

Three pages that might be of use. Talks about wads and making shot cartridges.

[John SMOthermon]

My gun does shoot low, so I've got to correct that issue as well.

Try changing where you glue your cheek to the stock- The gun shoots low with your face in a specific place.

I’m shooting looking straight down the top of the barrel using the tang screw as a rear sight ,
I can’t get any lower on the gun .

But still not ready to bend it just yet.....


Like Pukka my hide is still sore from the earlier thrashing . LOL

So all I’m saying is.. Just how much could one , 1/2” wad
disrupt a 30+ inch shot pattern at 25 yards?

[rich pierce]

You have to get higher on the gun and see more of the barrel if you are shooting low.