Slow Twist .40? (1-66)

[Smokey Plainsman]

Guys my new rifle has a very slow twist of 1-66 for a round ball. This seems pretty slow for a .40 and I’m wondering if it’s going to take quite a bit of powder to get a good group, and I worry that a light squirrel load of + or - 30 grains is just not going to group well. I bought the gun specifically for small game, it’s an old Douglas barrel that it uses. Seems I might need to use a fairly heavy charge which is not good for my intended purpose.

Thoughts?

-Smokey

[Daryl]

It will likely shoot squirrels very well with a light powder charge, in the 30 to 40gr. range, of 3F. It's best accuracy (50yards and further) will likely come
with a lot more powder, up to 75gr.(or more) 3F if using a slick lube. Much depends on your ball and patch combination.  Weak or loose combinations may
not allow the powder charges necessary to get the rifle shooting IT'S best. This pretty much depends on what you want and need.

[retired fella]

I shoot a douglas barrel in .40 cal.  For target and squirrels 40 grain use a .400 ball on top of a .15 patch.  Tight combo, but works.

[hanshi]

And like I often say, you never know until you try it.

[Smokey Plainsman]

I’m just terrified that I’m going to half to use a massive charge to get any kind of a group from it. All I’ll be left with is squirrel pate. Frankly I just thought the barrel would have the normal 1:48” twist that .40s normally come with.

Then I’m reading the Douglas barrels can have stress cracks and burst??

I feel like I’m going to puke!! 

[stikshooter]

Take the time to enjoy shooting your new rifle ,as stated find out by trying combos before worrying . Experimenting is fun ,worrying
not so much /Ed

[okawbow]

I use just enough powder to cover the ball in the palm of my hand in my .40 for squirrels. It comes to about 20 grains more or less. (Dan’l Boone taught me that😀) A snug patch and ball works best. Doesn’t tear up the squirrels and is deadly accurate at squirrel ranges. Your gun should shoot fine with a light load with 66 twist up to about 25 yards. 1/2 powder to ball weight will make it “crack” and shoot well at longer ranges.

[Smokey Plainsman]

I use just enough powder to cover the ball in the palm of my hand in my .40 for squirrels. It comes to about 20 grains more or less. (Dan’l Boone taught me that😀) A snug patch and ball works best. Doesn’t tear up the squirrels and is deadly accurate at squirrel ranges. Your gun should shoot fine with a light load with 66 twist up to about 25 yards. 1/2 powder to ball weight will make it “crack” and shoot well at longer ranges.

Take the time to enjoy shooting your new rifle ,as stated find out by trying combos before worrying . Experimenting is fun ,worrying
not so much /Ed

So... so you guys think it’ll shoot good enough for squirrels? That’s good!! Heck, maybe the slow twist might allow for a heavier charge to gain some trajectory and energy for busting yotes at range, he’ll maybe even close in deer hunting?

Why, it might actually be ideal for an “all rounder” woods gun! Maybe???

If the gun won’t group with a lower charge, I could always send it to Robert Hoyt to have it relined with a slower twist and maybe even drop it down to a .36...

[smokinbuck]

Stop thinking so much and just shoot the @!*% thing. You'll. Worry yourself into needlessly getting rid of a perfectly good rifle.

[MuskratMike]

Smoky Plainsman: your working yourself up to the point of getting the "drizzles".
I do agree for a .40 that is a bit of a slow twist, but it is what it is. Take some 3F some .395 balls, patches in .010 & .015 soaked in Neatsfoot oil and go to the range. My .40 Kibler SMR shoots almost identical groups with 40 & 60 grains. I use 60 for deer size game and 40 for smaller game and paper shooting.
The fun of a new rifle is getting to know her and seeing what she likes. If this doesn't work send it to The "Muskrat" and I will build you a load, and promptly return it in a decade or two!

[Mike from OK]

All I’ll be left with is squirrel pate.

Smokey, relax.

My .32 will destroy a squirrel with a badly placed shot...

Work up an accurate load. It won't matter how hot the load is if you stick with head shots... Whether the ball is moving at 800 fps or 2000 fps... The head will basically be gone.

The main issue is working up a load that you have confidence in to be accurate. Once that is done, enjoy the hunt.

Mike

[Smokey Plainsman]

Thank you all kindly. I read one person’s account on a sister board of them having a .40 barrel with 1:66 twist (probably a Douglas) that shot great with as little as 25 grains. We shall see.

The rifle was advertised as having 7 lands and grooves. Further research reveals Douglas made barrels with that many grooves in a 1:48 twist... the plot thickens.

Only way to know is measure it out when I get it. I’ll let you guys know!

[little joe]

I had a 40 that shot very well with 40 grs. 3f and .395 ball ans heavy ticking. Try it.

[Larry Pletcher]

My first flint gun was a .40 made by Douglas with a 1-66 twist. It was a very accurate barrel. I shot 40 grains of fffg. I believe it was going up through the 10 ring at 25 yds and down through the 10 ring at 50 yards. .395 ball,  pillow tick, 40 grains fffg, and you’re good to go.

Regards,
Pletch

[Daryl]

Only way to know is measure it out when I get it. I’ll let you guys know!

All of this and you don't even KNOW what the twist is? wow

[Smokey Plainsman]

Glad to hear that guys, thanks!!

Would 40 grs be too much for a squirrel or rabbit?

[Marcruger]

Relax. Douglas barrels shoot great. That twist should work fine. Give it a chance and be patient. 🙂 God bless, Marc

[Smokey Plainsman]

Only way to know is measure it out when I get it. I’ll let you guys know!

All of this and you don't even KNOW what the twist is? wow

Well I emailed Track and they said it was probably a 1-66 since it was a Douglas, BUT, it has 7 lands and grooves which I read somewhere might be a 1-48. So yeahhhh................ the plot thickens my brother, the plot thickens...

[Smokey Plainsman]

Relax. Douglas barrels shoot great. That twist should work fine. Give it a chance and be patient. 🙂 God bless, Marc

Thank you, Marc. I do need to just try it out. I’m starting to feel much better thanks to everyone’s support. Heck, it might not even BE a 1-66. We’ll find out in a handful of days when it arrives after Thanksgiving.

I have a bad habit of freaking out. I’m sorry, all. Thanks for bearing with me and guiding me on my path!

[smylee grouch]

It was my understanding that Douglas barrels had 8 cuts and the barrels they made for Golden Age Arms had 7. Maybe the GAA barrels had a 1-48 twist if that is the case. I,m sure someone on this forum would know for sure.

[alacran]

Would 40 grs be too much for a squirrel or rabbit?

10 grains would be too much if you hits them in the ass.

[smokinbuck]

I have a GAA Vincent in .40 with a Douglas barrel. It was made in the early 70's by Larry Bryner. The barrel is 1:48 and shoots clover leafs on days that I can perform up to the rifle's capabilities. Burst Douglas barrel bursts did occur but were the exception, not the rule.

[drago]

Maybe one of the experienced shooters can tell you how to check the twist of your barrel

[kudu]

RELAX----- The gun will shoot better than you most likely. with about 40grs +,- 10grs I suspect.
 
If you use "Real Black powder" ( I Stress REAL Black Powder) and clean the barrel when done it should last you 169 years give or Take  50 years.

[WadePatton]

I’m just terrified that I’m going to half to use a massive charge to get any kind of a group from it. All I’ll be left with is squirrel pate. ...

No matter what speed you hit a squirrel with a 390/395 ball you're going to do some serious damage.  Maybe don't look so hard for problems that likely don't exist or won't occur? 

No one knows for sure what that rifle will do but he/she who shoots it.  Put 200 shots down range and you'll know a ton better what to expect from it-and if you don't beat the snot out of it while doing such, it should retain most of it's resale value.  Send it back now and you shall never know how well it could shoot.

Check the twist! --or not-- it's irrelevant once you start shooting and SEE what it does.

40-grains is no good, only if 35 or 45 groups better.  A missed squirrel cares not how fast the ball was traveling. 


Two things you can do: Shoot it or send it back, and I think sending it back without determining the actual twist in that bbl is foolhardy.  I know I'd be burning powder because barrel makers tend to avoid using twists that make their barrels perform poorly--think about that (despite what all the experts might say on the internets).