Author Topic: Another Kibler Colonial..... Some final comments on Jim's kit..... (Read 25977 times)

Marcruger · « **Reply #100 on:** July 24, 2020, 11:00:18 PM »

The orangey one second from the muzzle looks pretty good to me. Two coatings of AF, and some antiquing and I think it'd look nice. You are the artist of course. God Bless, Marc

Marcruger · « **Reply #101 on:** July 24, 2020, 11:01:42 PM »

A circle template? Really? I thought I was the only one still using drafting tools. :-)

smart dog · « **Reply #102 on:** July 25, 2020, 01:24:52 AM »

Hi Dave,
Are you using Jim Kibler's stain, which I believe is ferric nitrate. Below are some photos of guns with maple stocks that I stained with ferric nitrate. One feature that I have is iron in my well water and I use it rather than distilled. I believe it is responsible for the redder tones I usually (not always) achieve with ferric nitrate stain.

Ferric nitrate solution is weakly acidic and you can dissolve iron filings in it if you give it some time to act. Another option is to paint the stock with lye water after blushing, which also neutralizes any residual acid. Here is a test of showing the effect. The first photo is maple stained with ferric nitrate and wet with water, and the second is the same piece after a lye wash and wet.

Good luck,

dave

davec2 · « **Reply #103 on:** July 25, 2020, 03:02:43 AM »

David,

Thanks for the pictures and information. I am caught up in several "firsts" for me. The first "first" is that I am trying to use ferric nitrate but dissolved in ethanol rather than water to minimize grain raising. When initially mixed, the solution is a nice deep reddish amber color but perfectly clear. If I use it fresh, I get one color after heat blush. If I wait overnight, the clear amber solution clouds up with a brown / rusty looking precipitate, fully suspended in the solution. If I use it after it clouds up, even on the same piece of wood, and then heat blush again, it comes out a different color. However, when testing in the barrel channel, neither one are very attractive on this piece of wood. Both versions come out a chocolate brown and too dark. This first ferric nitrate solution was 2 grams of ferric nitrate in 25 ml of ethanol. I'm going to try making a solution half strength and then try this all again.

On top of the ferric nitrate experiments, I am working with a couple of colors of TransTint....a few drops mixed in a 50 / 50 solution of ethanol and lacquer thinner. The original intent here is to do something with the blushed ferric nitrate and then try to get close to the color of Jim's rifle with the TransTint as an over wash. But there are about a gazillion permutations and combinations here....and I'm running out of bare wood spots to test on.

I'll keep you posted.....but this could go on for a while. This is the first time I have ever tried to get close to a particular color. Usually I just use the iron nitrate in water (prepared from nitric acid & iron), heat blush, and let the color come out where it will.

smart dog · « **Reply #104 on:** July 25, 2020, 03:58:47 AM »

Hi Dave,
I believe that a problem with alcohol as a base is it dries so quickly that it does not penetrate well. Personally, I do not use alcohol-based stains for that reason although I do use Homer Dangler's alcohol-based stains for touch up. I believe water-based stains penetrate deeper and provide richer color. I cut the background and basic carving outlines, then whisker the stock, then carve the details. That eliminates any grain raising in the carving.

dave

Adrie luke · « **Reply #105 on:** July 25, 2020, 09:00:34 AM »

Dave
I use Lancaster Maple stain from Track and Wolf.
I put the maple stain on, rub it of with a cloth. stain it again. rub it again and do this several times.
When you think the color is right you stop.

Adrie

davec2 · « **Reply #106 on:** July 25, 2020, 06:07:26 PM »

Adrie,

Thank you for the photos and the explanation. I have never used those types of stains but I bought a few colors to experiment with.

Are all of those rifles in the photo miniatures ? If so, that is a fantastic collection of miniature long rifles !!!!

Clint · « **Reply #107 on:** July 25, 2020, 07:09:24 PM »

Great Balls of Fire! Dave, most of my gun work looks fine from six to twelve feet away. Your work is incredible even with a loupe!

Adrie luke · « **Reply #108 on:** July 25, 2020, 07:18:01 PM »

Dave these are all the rifles I made on scale.

Two I have given to friends.

For the good understanding, you rub off the stain while it is still wet.
When you put on the stain again the soft wood absorbs more stain.

Adrie

Mike Lyons · « **Reply #109 on:** July 25, 2020, 07:35:20 PM »

Dave,

This is an experiment I did a year ago using different finishes over Jim Kiblers iron nitrate.

davec2 · « **Reply #110 on:** July 25, 2020, 08:31:07 PM »

Mike,

Thanks !!! Were all of those samples from the same piece of wood ?

davec2 · « **Reply #111 on:** July 25, 2020, 09:10:45 PM »

While I work on the staining experiments, I was looking at the muzzle cap and decided it was too plain (compared to everything else). Besides, I had to do something with the heads of the two copper rivets I made to hold the cap in place...

Mike Lyons · « **Reply #112 on:** July 25, 2020, 11:15:46 PM »

Quote from: davec2 on July 25, 2020, 08:31:07 PM

Mike,

Thanks !!! Were all of those samples from the same piece of wood ?

Yes Sir. It’s a very general representation of the products. I treated each product the same and have sense found out that each product has several different methods. The first piece in each pile had one coat of Jim Kiblers stuff, the second had two and the third, three. I don’t think I waited the 30 minutes before each coat like I do now. The finishing product was slathered on and then a coat or two applied after each dried.

flatsguide · « **Reply #113 on:** July 26, 2020, 07:00:37 AM »

Dave, I think I came across your name while looking at rocket engines on YouTube. Said you are/were very involved with rocket engine design and development...Is that you?
Cheers Richard

davec2 · « **Reply #114 on:** July 26, 2020, 10:11:26 AM »

Richard,

Yes, that was probably me. Over many years I have done and helped many students with amateur rocket projects that have been posted on YouTube. In addition, I have worked professionally as a propulsion engineer since leaving active duty in the Navy in 1981. I run a test facility out in the Mojave Desert and do rocket testing for many of the larger aerospace companies. My crew and I did all of the development and qualification testing for the 44,000 pound thrust Launch Abort Engine for the new Boeing Starliner space craft. Here is a short video.....I'm the guy in the Indiana Jones hat......

FDR · « **Reply #115 on:** July 26, 2020, 04:21:11 PM »

Great video Dave! I haven't seen an engine test since I left NASA in 2005. I used to have a lot of fun with the propulsion guys. My question to them was " the engine is firing and the hold down arms just released now what are you going to do?" Always got a lot of puzzled looks!

I was the guidance, navigation and control hardware guy.

Fred

Marcruger · « **Reply #116 on:** July 26, 2020, 04:35:13 PM »

Cool to see you at work Dave. I never realized you were a movie star. :-)

flatsguide · « **Reply #117 on:** July 26, 2020, 05:26:02 PM »

You are a true renaissance man in the truest sense of the word.
Cheers Richard

davec2 · « **Reply #118 on:** July 27, 2020, 02:20:29 AM »

Richard.....thanks for the compliment

OK.....I tried about 435,365 permutations and combinations of staining techniques on this stock (all in the barrel channel) and determined that, in no small measure, the wood is going to turn out whatever color the wood wants to turn out. So here it is thus far. I haven't finished "fiddling" with it yet (and it looks much better wet than dry). I've done so many things to this stock along the way (going from very light to darker) that I cannot even tell you how I got this far.....and I'm sure I could never repeat the process.....

$:-\$

Daryl · « **Reply #119 on:** July 27, 2020, 07:01:20 AM »

It is going to be exquisite - or better

Marcruger · « **Reply #120 on:** July 27, 2020, 11:05:13 PM »

Hi Dave,

Dry it looks a little on the light side, but it looks nice. Is that two coats of AF? Are you planning on a finish that also has some color in it, like Chambers?

It reminds me of leather finishing. I stop two shades lighter than I want. The neatsfoot oiling darkens it one shade, and then the top finish darkens it yet again.

Beautiful carving on that one. Two thumbs up.

God Bless, Marc

FALout · « **Reply #121 on:** July 28, 2020, 12:36:14 AM »

Really nice curl, I like how the patch box lid looks like it was cut right from that area so the grain mostly matches, I don’t get that lucky.

davec2 · « **Reply #122 on:** July 28, 2020, 10:15:00 AM »

A little more tweaking of the staining and then the first coat of finish.....not the color I was heading for, but I like it anyway.......

hawkeye · « **Reply #123 on:** July 28, 2020, 10:37:13 AM »

Great looking rifle, super executed
Thanks for sharing

Adrie luke · « **Reply #124 on:** July 28, 2020, 04:08:31 PM »

Dave.

I made the pickture big, and I looked at it from a big distance, it's a beautiful color.
Adrie

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Author Topic: Another Kibler Colonial..... Some final comments on Jim's kit..... (Read 25977 times)