off hand shooting, a humbling experiance!

[thecapgunkid]

We need some beer ( or Coffee) and a campfire to sit around for this.  Indeed I wish I could meet some of you guys.  Everybody is right, everybody is wrong, and  this thread is testimony to the  wisdom of one man's meat...

Going back to the 18th century, how did folks shoot?  We know that guys jacked deer because they had to eat, and the conventional wisdom was that a rifleman always braced his gun when he shot.  Having always favored shooting out of the bag and being in only offhand matches, only recently have I taken to the bench.  Hasn't changed point of aim/point of impact at all when going back to standing up.

This weekend the Saugerties Landowners are having a trail shoot and I am thinking of tearing up my score card and bracing every shot, just for the heck of it.

If I ever hve to depend on my rifle, guess who won't be shooting offhand...

[OldMtnMan]

Nobody is forcing you to shoot offhand kid. Don't assume everybody shoots offhand like you do.

[Bob McBride]

The only ‘range’ I ever shoot at is the Walter Cline once or twice a year. At home I shoot in the woods in an attempt to ‘find’ the old ways, so to speak. I find offhand a necessary skill as is shooting braced. Too often in the woods I spot my prey, freeze, and being 3 feet from a tree might as well be 3 miles. It’s an offhand shot or nothing. When I walk up on a Turkey at 25y I don’t need to brace. When I’m leaning against a tree and one walks up to me I don’t brace either. Stalking deer I may or may not brace under about 40y depending on time and the convenience of a good tree or log. Squirrels way up a tree get a brace and the most focus I can muster. If they’re 5’ up a tree, vertical, and wagging their finger in my face, likely not. I understand, depending on your personality type a hobby/sport like shooting and hunting will either hyperfocus your interest or broaden it. I have friends who’ve hunted all their life stare at me all incredulous when I suggest they try hunting outside the stand or blind. I just don’t see it, from my frame of reference, as an either or. Offhand practice will make all your shooting better.

[thecapgunkid]

OldMtn and Bob...A little testy here guys?  I didn't say shooting offhand OR braced, I said shooting offhand AND braced.  Between eyesight, arthur-itis and overall aging I have to do both

[LH]

I think it was gun writer Ross Seyfried who said,  "most hunters are not shooters and most shooters are not hunters"   That holds up pretty good from my experience these past 69 short years.  Both have fun though and doing one don't mean you're having less fun than the other.  It also don't mean you are right or wrong.  Shooting is just plain fun no matter what position you use. And I think it would be fair to say that most bench shooters are not offhand shooters and vice versa.  It seems to me that the traditional muzzleloading crowd has more people who are shooters and hunters than perhaps any other gun group.  In the end,  if you don't like your abilities with the flintlock,  you should shoot more.  Shooting is fun so the worse you think you are,  the more fun you have in store.   

[Bob McBride]

OldMtn and Bob...A little testy here guys?  I didn't say shooting offhand OR braced, I said shooting offhand AND braced.  Between eyesight, arthur-itis and overall aging I have to do both

Not testy here. Preachy maybe. I have to focus to make what I write match what I’m thinking and feeling. This medium is not very conducive to translating emotion well I find, especially if I’ve been on the tractor all day and my brain is rattled.

[Craig Wilcox]

I've been mostly a still hunter rather than use a blind, tho I sure have used a blind the past few years.  Getting harder to walk and chew gum at the same time.
I've had a "built in" tremor most of my life, and therefore use whatever brace I can when hunting.  I was taught to shoot first by the Marines when Dad was stationed in the Philippines in the mid-50's.  Carried on learning when we returned to the States, mostly at the indoor range at the Marines HQ in Washington DC - it was OK to ride a bus from Falls Church with rifle in hand.
The Marines definitely DO shoot offhand, but will use a brace whenever possible.  Only common sense when you really need to hit the target before the target can hit you.
Still love to hunt, and still love a day at the range.  I use the bench there.

[OldMtnMan]

Well, hunting isn't like war. The game won't shoot back. I've never felt a need to use a brace while hunting. If I can't make the shot offhand I probably shouldn't be taking the shot.

I'm sure I pass up more shots than the average hunter. I never feel like I have to make a kill. There's always another day. The game has a right to live if it's smart enough to beat me. The only reason I can say i've never taken any game but by shooting offhand and have never lost any game is to not ever take chancy shots.

Hunting is more than the kill. Just like fly fishing is more than catching fish. It's not what you get hunting or fishing. It's how you do it. Did you give the game every chance? Did you use fair chase? Did you hunt for the meat and the challenge or did you hunt to stroke your ego?

[OldMtnMan]

I should have kept my above post to myself. I'm very strict with myself and shouldn't push it on anybody else.

Everyone is free to hunt as you want to. As long as it's legal.

[wolf]

I have been shooting all my life, as long as I can remember back, I am 63 in September.  but it was rimfire and centerfire and cap locks, I have killed several deer off hand at 100yds and beyond off hand. when I started with flintlocks it was a whole new ball game. and I was embarrassed! I had to learn not to flinch, something I did not do with modern rifles. what helped me and stopped my flinch problem with off hand shooting was I would put it in my mind when I touched off the trigger not to move until I counted 3, of course I can't get 1 counted before the ball has left the barrel. since I started doing that no more flinch. and I have had flash in the pan I do not move. it worked for me,,,,,,,,,,,,

[bob in the woods]

Shooting off hand is a skill which can be learned with practice. As in all things, some folks will be better at it than others.  Off hand shooting is where the balance and general handling characteristics of a swamped barrel really shine.  My first swamped barrelled rifle was an eye opener.

[walks with gun]

           I shattered the heck out of a leg and messed my back and neck up.  I shot offhand competitively, for fun and hunting and thought I was good at it, now I'm trying all over again to build muscle up to be steady enough to shoot as good as I want.  My dad used to practice and got me started at raising the gun and holding on a spot on the wall or a mark, holding it to the count of ten then remounting.   He'd do this at least 50 times a day and it really helps, especially in the late winter when you don't get out much.

[Osprey]

I've always gone by the adage that a bench shows you how the gun shoots, offhand shows how well you shoot (or not).  10 of our 12 monthly club matches are offhand, to that's mainly how we all shoot.  I sight in and work up loads on a bench, but that's about it.  For hunting I take a rest on a tree, branch or  stand if I can, offhand if not.  I figure it best to respect the game with the best shot you can make, but I practice offhand so I'm ready when that's the shot in the woods.

[alacran]

About the only thing you have control of when hunting, is the ability to place a projectile on target. Most hunters do not practice with their weapons enough. It should be a year around thing, not just the 2 weeks before hunting season. Hunting is a life style, shooting is a sport.

[thecapgunkid]

OldMtnMan...I should have kept my above post to myself. I'm very strict with myself and shouldn't push it on anybody else.

Good Lord, Man...don't do that!  There's a lot more value to these posts than not.

I watched a video the other day about some feller who picked up a rusty Cabela's rifle and then professed to clean and shoot it.  Did not have a clue about what is right and wrong and then put a .45 ball down a .50 rifle with a thick patch..  Compare that lunacy to the high quality of Bob' TV.  Who do you want  next to you on the line shooting?

Like I said earlier...the only thing lacking from the value of guys' posts here is a beer or some coffee....ok, maybe a campfire...

[windriver68]

When you have an animal in your sight, whatever you have to do to make a fast and accurate kill, is fair. First  you want to make sure the animal isn't just wounded and runs off and you can't find it. Off hand is great if it doesn't compromise the shot. I have no idea what war has to do with this.

[EC121]

Offhand shooting is a learned skill.  Bench shooting is learning to operate the equipment to its best performance by removing as many variables as possible.  Both are fun.   

I never miss a chance to brace.  Mostly on the guard rail of my  ladder stand.  I don't have the acreage to stalk hunt.

[Glenn Hurley Jr.]

When my Dad was still alive and  well, we started shooting our flintlocks at clay pigeons propped up on the orchard grass offhand, starting at 20 yards.  We would alternate shots, 5 apiece.  If we missed any, we continued at that yardage.  Once we broke all ten birds, we would move them back 10 yards.  We continued this every Sunday until we ran them straight at 75 yards.  It took a lot of the summer but we each honed our offhand shooting.  We were humbled  quite a few times, that’s for sure but we certainly were better shots when fall arrived.   Quality time spent with Dad, that’s for sure!

[little joe]

There is a documented passage of a Rifle Co. Capt, likely sonthern, of his men using a brace with moss to pad it.

[Darkhorse]

Several decades ago I was shooting in the SE Regionals and in the 50 yard offhand I managed to place third. I though this was pretty good for me. But I practiced shooting offhand a lot and I got real good at it too. The 50 yard bull was always my match. It would take close to a 50 with a few X's to beat me.
As good as I was I always looked for a brace of some sort when a shot at game presented itself. That brace made me a better shot with cleaner, faster kills. I depend on a brace even more so as I've gotten older.
As far as I'm concerned shooting form and concentration on the front sight and target are the secrets to offhand shooting. With concentration on driving that front sight into the target the most important. Beyond that you can fine tune it by working with your  feet position, arm strength, and how you hold the rifle. And a lot of practice.
A couple of years ago I got a chance at a nice doe but when I squeezed the trigger I got a dreaded flash in the pan. My front sight was still nailed behind  her shoulder and I held the rifle on target and reached up and flipped back the frizzen, dumped some prime in the pan and closed the frizzen. Then I took the shot and bagged some nice venison. The rifle never left my shoulder.  Shots like that are the result of years of offhand training.

[Tony N]

Hunting is more than the kill. Just like fly fishing is more than catching fish. It's not what you get hunting or fishing. It's how you do it. Did you give the game every chance? Did you use fair chase? Did you hunt for the meat and the challenge or did you hunt to stroke your ego?

I agree and feel 100% the same

Tony

[Craig Wilcox]

Three score years ago and more, I was shooting prone at Camp Perry, OH.  Range was 1,000 yards - but it wasn't a ML with black powder.
Then I started shooting offhand at 100 yards, .58 cal 1863 Springfield.  Mostly we shot at clay pigeons taped to a piece of plywood, but targets could be something as simple as shooting empty beer cans off a rail.
I enjoyed it all, and would always return home with a face streaked with BP residue.
I was MUCH better offhand at 100 yd than I was prone at ten times that distance!
But yet today, lacking a bench, I sight in from the prone position.  I like to get the rifle shooting it's best before tackling offhand shooting.
Longest shot offhand was 220 yards at a doe right at daybreak on a misty morning in Oklahoma.  She dropped immediately, shot through the spinal cord.  If it hadn't been for all the bench practice, I would have never thought of taking the shot.  And yes, shot prone to sight in that .45 longrifle.
But age took it's toll - took me about an hour to get her, gutted, into the back of my wheels.  She weighed 175 lb, gutted, at the check station.  Neighbors and I ate well for quite a few meals.

[Sharpsman]

I got enough standing shooting the 50 years I shot NRA HP matches to last me two lifetimes!

I left the hustle/bustle of that plus travel time years ago so now at age 80 I shoot from the bench. When I hunt I have a rest; either a stick or the side of a blind! It's a pleasure to me these days just to see how well these front stuffers will shoot and they shoot mighty fine. My eyes are still good....so you youngsters can shoot all the offhand you want to....I'll wear out my bench!

Untitled by Sharps Man, on Flickr

[Daryl]

Good solid looking bench Sharpsman - semi-portable too.
Here's one that I take out & set up in the fields for gopher shooting.
Folds up flat and goes into the back of the truck along with a chair.




BTW- THAT is the position I use for sighting in my rifles. I find THAT position, holding the forend in the left hand with that hand on the bag, gives me the same POI as shooting offhand.

[Sharpsman]

Daryl

Yep on the tow! I've got a bar with a round ball hitch that just shoves up inside the square tubing and the seat is adjustable for elevation. That came in handy when I was teaching my grandkids marksmanship.